Could Jim Jeffries Plausibly Have Beaten Every Champ Prior To Louis?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rainer, Jun 6, 2019.



  1. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Just found out that the Van Buskirk fight was a very controversial one.
    Jeffries drove a left into Van Buskirk's body in the opening round which caused him to drop his hands and hold his groin,Jeffries backed off evidently feeling his punch had unintentionally gone low,Buskirk's seconds entered the ring bringing a chair with them,which their man duly sat on.
    The referee however ruled the punch was legit and that no foul had been committed.The bell ended the round and Buskirk came out somewhat refreshed for the 2nd rd and began forcing the action ,with Jeffries backing away but landing hard lefts to the body as he did so.
    Jeffries corner shouted for him to attack and he complied, punching Buskirk all around the ring landing heavily with both hands before kayoing him with a left uppercut.Van Buskirk was examined by a Doctor after the fight and found to be suffering from a hernia which was blamed on the" low blow" in the first round. Reports were divided on the legitimacy of the punch.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
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  2. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jeffries would likely stop Sharkey in second fight had he not broken his arm.

    He was losing the battle with Corbett on points but the fight was long and Jeffries did what he had to - knocked him out.
     
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  3. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    He was the first heavyweight champion to retire undefeated until his abortive comeback,and was perceived as a superman in his own time.
     
  4. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    In the end he won, that's what counts.
     
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  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    One thing I never understood is why some fans of Louis, Dempsey, and Johnson, who happen to be skeptics or critics of Jeffries harp upon the size of some of his opponents. ( Fitz )

    Louis, Dempsey, and Johnson not only were dropped several times by sub-200-pound men ( something that never happened to Jeffries ) they also were defeated by sub-200 pound men ( Somehting that never happened to Jeffries )

    In each case, the opponent who did this to them isn't historically viewed as good as Bob Fitzsimmons was from 1890-1950.

    IMO, a win over a near prime or prime Fitzsimmons would be Johnson or Dempsey's best win. Maybe the same for Louis. Yet they say Fitz was a light heavyweight. This just doesn't make sense or wash.
     
  6. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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  7. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Big deal.

    Mike Dokes could have done that against the line up Jim faced.
     
  8. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Sullivan actually did as well.
     
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  9. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Maybe, I'm just saying why he was held in such esteem.
     
  10. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Jim Corbett?
     
  11. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I think Sullivan, Corbett and Fitzsimmons all said they were retired at point during their reign. Though Fitzsimmons already had losses.

    People claimed the title when Sullivan and Corbett were retired, I don't know of anyone doing it when Fitz was retired, though Bob Armstrong claimed the colored title.
     
  12. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Jeffries had a great chin,but does that make him superior as a fighter to those you mentioned?
    Would Corbett go 23 rds with Louis,or Dempsey?
    Would 185lbs 5foot 8 inches Sharkey go a total 45rds in two fights with either of them?
    Would Corbett be in front after 23 rds with Johnson?
    Fitz had been inactive for 2 years prior to both fights with Jeffries,prime or near prime?
    Jeffries had a pull in the weight of around 60lbs against Choynski,43lbs, against Fitz1 .47lbs Fitz2,32lbs against Sharkey1,30lbs against Corbett1.The last 4 are his best wins.
    I rate Jeffries pretty high ,I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
     
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I'll play? Did Louis or Dempsey ever go 23 rounds? I tend to doubt Dempsey could. His promoter liked shorter fights for his man.

    Louis went 26 rounds with Walcott, was floored three times and lost the majority of them. If the combined rounds was only 23, Louis is the official loser. 2/3 of the sports writers at ringside felt Louis lost the first fight on points. Jeffries would have upped his ante sooner if the Corbett fight was only 15 rounds. Tunney won 19 of the 20 rounds with Dempsey. Well, maybe 18, of 20. If you read credible reports the fight was about even on rounds in Jeffries vs Corbett for the first 23. Adam Pollack, author, and historian says it was anyone's fight going into the 23rd.

    Sharkey was an iron man type. Jeffries was green in the first fight and had a major injury to his shoulder in the 2nd. No one can knock everyone out. For example, Gibbons went 15 with Dempsey and looked fresh enough to go on for a while. Louis took Tommy Farr 15 rounds.

    Would Corbett beat Johnson? Debatable.

    We don't know what Fitz was doing for those 2 years. He often went on tour. It's not like he was fat or undertrained for the fight.

    Jeffries says he floored Choysnki 3 times. The press says twice. Choysnki did very little for the 2nd half of the fight, and IMO was lucky to get the draw. This was also a very early fight for Jeffries vs. Choynski in his prime.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Dokes had a bit of a glass jaw. I doubt it.
     
  15. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Louis won both fights with Walcott.
    Sharkey was an Iron Man type ,yet Fitz ko'd him twice ? Dempsey was past it for the Tunney fights ,I think we can agree on that?
    Gibbons was a clever defensive fighter ,Sharkey was a face first swarmer.
    Dempsey had 12 and half pounds on Gibbons ,Jeffries had 32 on Sharkey. Jeffries was green against Choynski I agree, but that is a huge weight disparity.Several reports thought Choynski worth the draw.
    Pollack says Corbett was in front against Jeffries actually.
    The NY Tribune
    The NY Herald
    The Sun
    The National Police Gazette
    The World
    The Journal
    All had Corbett ahead at the time of the stoppage.
    I'm more impressed that Jeffries floored Ruhlin 3 times. Fitzsimmons did not have an actual fight for 2 years prior to both fights with Jeffries ,we know that much about him.
    I have a list of his exhibitions between both fights, so I know what his level of activity was.

    Louis was scheduled to go 20 rounds twice , should we penalise him because he stopped both his opponents early?
    What fights did Rickard set for short distances to favour Dempsey?
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019