Would the average boxer today win a round v the best boxer 50 years ago?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Jun 9, 2019.


  1. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,562
    May 4, 2017
    I agree but Wilder only weighed 212 v Fury and still floored him, so doesn`t that prove that weight isn`t as big a factor as fans point out?
     
    jhar26 likes this.
  2. jhar26

    jhar26 Member Full Member

    252
    82
    Dec 23, 2004
    It's one of many factors imo. But it's one that can be overcome. Just like, say, having a poor jab can be overcome or compensated for by other things. But given the choice I'm sure that they would all prefer to have a good jab.
     
    mark ant likes this.
  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

    27,130
    44,897
    Mar 3, 2019
    What? How? Who?
    Average fighters today, probably about 9/10 by ring today, so I'll use 9 to be generous

    HW
    1969 Ring Champion - Muhammad Ali
    2019 Ring Rated 9 - Adam Kownacki

    Ali would be equally sized, have the chin, speed, Defence and footwork advantages he usually enjoyed and having faced both Floyd Patterson and Joe Frazier would know how to beat him.

    LHW
    1969 Ring Champion - Bob Foster
    2019 Ring Rated 9 - Sven Fornling

    C'mon we both know this ends with Fornling getting the Tiger treatment

    MW
    1969 Ring Champ - Nino Benvenuti
    2019 Ring Rated 9 - Kamil Szeremeta

    Again, same thing happens. Kamil gets shut out.

    WW
    1969 Ring Champion - Jose Napoles
    2019 Ring Rated - Egidijus Kavaliauskas

    Prime Napoles outshines everyone in the current WW division, this Schmut doesn't land a solid punch
     
    Loudon likes this.
  4. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    40,832
    10,211
    Mar 7, 2012
    There's either a lot of ignorance on this thread, or there's people that have misread the post.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  5. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,562
    May 4, 2017
    A brilliant post aside from Napoles beating Bud, I feel that would have been a classic.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  6. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

    41,974
    4,029
    Sep 22, 2010
    yeh i am harsh, thats unfair, but hes not close to a good champ from the past.
     
  7. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

    41,974
    4,029
    Sep 22, 2010
    i cannot see it.
     
    Jackomano likes this.
  8. Lesion of Doom

    Lesion of Doom Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,938
    7,601
    Jan 21, 2015
    The question was whether today's average fighter could win a single round. That question obviously depends on what you mean by "average," but probably yes. That's a very low bar.

    But yes, fighters of equivalent stature between the eras would go in the direction of the modern guys. Training and nutrition have advanced dramatically since the old days, albeit Andy Ruiz is sitting there with a milkshake as HW champion. The best argument for the older fighters is that youth participation was up during prior times, whereas today boxing in the United States has essentially no youth component.

    All that said, you have to consider other factors that aren't getting mentioned here. In addition to training advantages, the pool of fighters was smaller in some respects because it was more difficult to line up international matchups. And boxing did not become fully racially integrated for quite some time. Maybe you'd argue that the top 10 are equivalent, but 11-50 are far better identified in modern boxing and thus would beat the snot out of the 11-50s a half century ago or more.

    Ultimately, all of this is unknowable. If you want to go out on your shield defending the 1969 or older champs, it's cool by me.
     
    kirk likes this.
  9. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

    71,024
    27,639
    Jul 26, 2004
    - Mathis was an overweight 150. He had flab and rolls. AJ weighed 147 against Ruiz and you cant find an ounce of fat on him. Saying Mathis weighed more than AJ doesnt mean much when he was obviously overweight. In fact, Mathis was known as an overweight boxer.

    - Citing purely weight as an example of the classic ages big men in this discussion isnt really the whole picture.

    When people talk about todays era being too big, its not just that they weigh a lot, it has a lot to do with how tall they are.

    If we are going just by weights then well Ruiz, even though he is 6ft 1, is way bigger than AJ. And Haye is bigger than Wilder sometimes.

    Dimensions matter. And that a 6'3" overweight boxer weighed into the 250s, to me just isnt a great example of a representing the size of the modern era as an example.

    But to each their own.

    To me, when talking about the modern eras size advantage, a good sized modern boxer should be at least 6'5".
     
    mark ant likes this.
  10. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

    71,024
    27,639
    Jul 26, 2004
    One thing I must say about the AJ loss is it did change my opinion on how the older fighters would do against the modern era a bit.

    Ruiz is probably 6'1" and had little problem finding AJ. Granted, part of that is because AJ doesnt fight tall... would be interesting to see if Wilder or Furys size would play a more significant role due the different style.

    Also... one has to wonder how much weighing 260 helps Ruizs power. I find it hard to believe that fast punches like that from a 260lber, that that weight doesnt carry through on making the punch a bit weightier and harder. But idk...

    But ya, Ive been forced to change my opinion a bit on size being a big factor in these type of matchups.
     
    mark ant and Loudon like this.
  11. Grinder

    Grinder Dude, don't call me Dude Full Member

    5,852
    2,566
    Mar 24, 2005
    Boxing is a dying sport, which was much more popular in the past. With a much larger percentage of the population in boxing the fighters would statistically be more likely to be better.

    How would today's best do against Charlie Burley and the Murderers' Row? I don't give today's fighters much of a chance, and these were not even the champs.

    Today's boxers fight for money and to keep that zero for the big payday - the art of ducking. The boxers of the past generally fought everyone, although there are exceptions. By fighting better boxers you'd assume they get better.

    Without a time machine no-one knows for sure, but based on evidence boxing was a much bigger sport, past generations fought more often and against better boxers, which makes me believe they were better.
     
    Loudon likes this.
  12. Paranoid Android

    Paranoid Android Manny Pacquiao — The Thurmanator banned Full Member

    7,393
    5,900
    Jul 21, 2017
    Because the other guy shared similarly short training camps and preparations.
     
  13. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    40,832
    10,211
    Mar 7, 2012
    The only thing that ever matters is how they match up stylistically.

    It doesn't matter what era they fought in or how much they weigh etc.

    If you stood Wilder next to Mike Tyson, the difference in size would be huge. Some fans may even say ridiculous. Wilder would have huge height and reach advantages. But in an actual fight, those advantages would soon become disadvantages for him.
     
  14. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

    61,197
    23,811
    Jul 21, 2012
    Carlos Monzon was coming through in 1969. I reckon he could beat top 5 P4P rated Canleo
     
    Glass Joe likes this.
  15. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,493
    3,718
    Apr 20, 2010
    I would be interested to see the numbers/stats you have, that backs up this contention.