I don't see Lastarza being a watered down Jeffries at all. Agreed. Since this is a head to head discussion, I am going to mention that I would take Walcott and Charles and Moore over Corbett and Fitz and Sharkey... Even probably rundown Louis over them. And on Jackson, please. Just please.
Just as I don't see Sharkey as a worse version of Marciano. Sharkey was probably better than Lastarza BTW. Fitz would destroy old Louis and brutally so. Old Charles is probably a bit better than old Corbett, Fitz was better than Walcott and Moore was clearly better than either of Sharkey/Ruhlin (I'm huge fan of Archie). Slight edge for Marciano, but it's not like one fought against dozens of better fighters than the other.
There just isn't enough footage of Jeffries to make an honest appraisal imho. The JJ fight might give an idea of his style but certainly not of how it was effective.
I can def see Jeffries been more problematic if he's lying back and countering but it s still a rough ride for Jeffries imo .
Not buying that really. Sharkey was a tiny wharfbrawler who never had much schooling in the science Fitz was older than even the Louis that Marciano faced. I'm not sure that Fitz, with the strategy he used, would get the right openings and if he did would be able to pounce on them. I'm not buying most of that.
Which is fair, in the end this are only opinions I want only to say that Fitz being older means nothing. Archie Moore at 40 would beat Louis from Marciano fight clearly. Some fighters got washed up more quickly than the others. Bob was one of the best old fighters ever. I also don't get the "strategy" comment - Fitz changed his strategy to his opponent. I'm sure he would fight old Louis differently than Jeffries or Corbett or Sharkey.
Objectively... I’d say over 15 Rocky wins a UD, Jeffries was a very slow starter, he also didn’t really use his height well crouching, this his chin is lower and closer to the rock, just my opinion, I don’t see Rocky knocking out a prime Jeffries, and I think a fight to the finish , Jeff would win, but over 15 with Rocky’s work rate, rock wins a very comfortable UD
It would be a great fight. While Jeffries fought punchers on Marciano's level, the reverse is not true, and unlike Rocky's later round come back type of wins ( LaStarza II, Charles II, Walcott 1 ) , that often happened when the other guy gassed and could not keep the pace, which is something that would not happen to Jeffries. So Jeffries would be the best puncher he fought, with the best conditioning to go 15 rounds or more, and would have the best chin by a good margin. Mix in that Rocky will be giving up about 3" in height 8 1/2" in reach and about 30-35 pounds, and the odds are against him. The posters who view size as an advance know all to well a good big man, beats a good little man, and for the little man to win, he needs extraordinary skills, and a styles match up, which isn't the case here. Jeffries is the better athlete. I think Rocky could put forth a good effort, but ultimately would lose via TKO in the later rounds, going out on his shield. Very few if any historians that lived though the times felt Rocky was the better. Were they all wrong? Not likely. Most said Rocky was a worthy champion, but not quite as great as a few before him. Best guess, Jeffries via 10th round TKO.
Seamus, Are you aware Lowry according to reports not only was the better but also had the Rock hurt? While it is true. Are you aware some felt LaStarza was the better in the first fight and was clearly in the lead in the second until Rocky hurt him with a huge punch on the break and went low, which changed the tides of the fight? It's on film to see. Charles was a fantastic light heavy. However, he did not have the chin to stand up to firepower, and by my count was floored 30 times, which could very well be the record for any heavyweight champion. Okay, how many fights did Jeffries have when he fought Ruhlin who he floored 2 twice with Ruhlin being saved from a KO by the final bell, and Choysnki who was floored 2-3 times in his prime and got a heated draw? Do you think Rocky would do better in 7 fights or less vs. these two? Unlikely, he DQ himself in an amateur loss to avoid a stoppage. Choynski had the legs to run the enter 2nd half, which he did. Pulling an Oscar de La Hoy, not for three rounds, but 10. You can take my word for it or research it. But please this I pick a dog catcher over Jeffries over act is getting old. Pretty much every significant heavyweight from Corbett to Dempsey said he was the best. There were there. In the McCallum survey with 12 historians voting, taken in the the 1950's, which included Jeffries came out #1.
Jeffries was a strong man in his day but he would not be prepared for the type of relentless power and power shots coming out of the catchers position and Marciano threw a lot of them in bunches. Jeffries could do rounds but not sure how many Marciano paced rounds he could take. Marciano by KO between 8-15
