prime Jack Dempsey vs prime David Tua

Firstly, we assume it's the best version of both fighters, not a lazy or undertrained version. Tua had political problems that caused gaps in his career and probably led to being a bit disillusioned, but let's not forget that Dempsey put the title in the cooler for years at a time. It's not like he was always focused on fighting.

Secondly, it's a lot easier to look like a Great White against an old, semi-retired Willard or completely unqualified heavy like Carpentier than it is against Lennox Lewis or Ibeabuchi.

 

It is very unfortunate that Dempsey put the title in the cooler especially since we basically missed out on some prime time Dempsey. It did seem unfortunately thats what HW Champions did at the time. The whole vaudeville traveling routine that Kearns kept pushing. Seems like from what I remember reading that was Kearns driven agenda along with the movies as it was quick guaranteed cash that went through Kearns hands like water so he kept it rolling fitting in fights here and there. This is how I remember it adleast. Either way I think more highly of Dempsey than Tua and I think he kicks his ass

 

I wouldn't bring up quality of opposition if I were you.

It is really not going to work in your favor here!

 

Please, Tua would tear thru that collection of lightheavies and farmhands in no time. Many of the "names" on Dempsey CV, guys like Morris, Flynn, Pelkey, Smith, aren't particularly awe-inspiring if you take into account the stage of their career.

And then we have dubious heavyweights such as Miske, Carpentier, Gibbons, even Tunney (if we are going to be honest) who have little to no pedigree in the top division.

I'll take the full grown men that Tua fought.

 

Would it not? I'd pick Lewis and Ibeabuci to beat anyone who Dempsey faced

 

Would, could, should, but lost whenever he fought somebody top ten in the real world.

Dempsey has an enormous advantage in quality of opposition on paper!

 

Tua didn't beat them, so they don't count.

 

1. I had Ike-Tua a draw,
2. Jack didn't beat his best opponent in my eyes, Tunney

 

I'm more impressed in beating prime Gibbons, Miske, Fulton and Firpo than prime Rahman, young Maskaev and young Ruiz. Beating past prime Willard is also more impressive than past prime Moorer for me.

 

Yes, but the bottom line is still the bottom line.

Tua only ever beat one top ten ranked contender, and that was a controversial win over Rahman.

Dempsey was a lineal champion, who beat a slew of top contenders.

Dempsey has the better resume, by a very big margin.

I can buy the idea that Tua was unlucky to share an era with Lewis, but I don't think that he was unlucky to share an era with Byrd and Rahman.

 

He also wasnt in his prime then. The assumption here is prime for prime

 

So would he be the hardest puncher or not?

 

Lineal is a mythical concoction of old timey enthusiasts imbued with the unequal opportunities of color lines, mob-control and geographic favoring. It means little to me because make-believe is not my concern.

Does he? Head to head? Please name his Top 5 pelts. There is a process among the Classicists to see a name in their readings and hear the recounting by misty-eyed old-timers, a name that gathers and multiplies in the echo chamber of nostalgia, a name that blossoms in the rays of greater lights like Marciano or Dempsey or Louis. And over time, their worth grows far beyond the actual contemporary value of what the fighter earned in a few "dramatic" rounds. Thus, we have a total ham-and-egger type like Firpo, a guy who wouldn't sniff the Top 50 today, but was involved in a dramatic fight that was painted and photographed and recounted as "exciting" and "great" by old-timers for decades and has assumed a stature completely out of scale with its actual worth. With the cacophony of sentiment rattling in their brains, Classicist contend that these feeble and ridiculous proponents would carry actual worth in a modern ring and believe such because a rational thought can not pierce that noise that has gathered over decades.