Not many/ Ruhlin was 6' 2", if we're talking about actual quality opponents. Gus was probably more skilled than Braddock IMO, but not nearly as resilient. Bob Armstrong was actually supposed to be a quick KO for Jeffries, before he then would fight someone else, but he was much more competitive than expected. Jeffries was green though.
Six feet two,but not over that. This is what I was replying to. "Jeffries fought against taller, longer and quicker fighters than him" Braddock is listed as 6'2" and a half. As precocious a talent as Jeffries was , I think the Armstrong match up was a bit ambitious for Jeffries at that stage of his career.
Jeffries broke his thumb in round one vs Armstrong. Armstrong was 6'4" tall with a 79" reach. His best wins are Slavin, Butler and Martin
Not relying on Box Rec. You the guy who said so and so was 0-0. As Bit pointed out that's not accurate. So who's relying on Box Rec? Johnson style was not to risk much, Munroe could hit. How do you know Johnson did not try to stop him? Can you prove that? I think the board has seen your type before, if you know what I mean
I enjoyed reading all the posts. I have a reaction to some of the points made on both sides. "Bob Armstrong was sparring partner level." I think this unfair. Armstrong was erratic, but KO'd Denver Ed Martin, Frank Slavin, and Joe Butler. I see him as a worthy and even dangerous opponent for a young fighter on the way up. Concerning the film of Johnson-Jeffries, "Ali vs Larry Holmes, Same thing." No. I don't think so. Ali lost every round to a younger, faster opponent, but still showed decent boxing skills. His body no longer allowed him to effectively use those skills. This would also be my take on Louis against Marciano. Jeffries looks far worse in that he doesn't seem to have any coherent strategy or possess basic boxing skills. It seems what he really had going for him was being bigger and stronger than the field in his era. "Ruhlin was taller, longer, and heavier than Braddock. Jeffries handled him without much trouble." Ruhlin seems slightly heavier. Other than that, I don't see much of a size difference. But the films show Braddock has basic boxing skills. The film of Ruhlin is limited, but what there is doesn't show much. He might have had the fight taken out of him by Jeff's body work. Perhaps film of other rounds or other fights would show more, but that is all guesswork. I know Braddock has decent skills and obviously the heart and chin to stand up to big punchers like Baer and Louis. Ruhlin is simply not proven on that level. To credit him on Braddock's level is to assume facts not in evidence, as they say in court. The point about Ruhlin is also valid I think for Jeffries. The film is very limited. It shows a big and strong man for the time with a hard left, but there is no sign of much defense, a good jab, or an overhand right. It looks to me that Jeff is a man who has to rely almost completely on out-toughing his opponent. I think this would prove chancy when matching him with more skilled men from later decades.
The Tale of the Tape for the Louis fight lists Braddock at 6-3 with a 78" reach, pretty much exactly what Ruhlin was.
Ruhlin was a half inch shorter than Braddock and usually about 6lbs heavier than the heavyweight version of Braddock.Jeffries did indeed handle Ruhlin without much trouble,and he may very well have handled others of his size, and bigger with same the ease but because they were not around, he didn't and we have to go by who he did actually fight ,don't we?
You're relying on Box rec if you say Johnson could not hurt Munroe and that he couldn't finish him.I have the round by round reports and they say categorically Johnson eased up after flooring Munroe who went into survival mode. What do you have? If you anything that points to the contrary please produce it ,we are all here to learn! No I don't know what you mean please enlighten me. You say it isn't accurate, yet you produce no other opponents for these men.To make your assertion stick you must do so,the burden of proof is on you not me.
Yes Jeffries broke his left thumb in the first round , he did very well in the circumstances .Armstrong usually failed when matched against the very best,but he was a defensively clever fighter, with size and some power,its a very creditable win for Jeffries so early in his career. The chink in Armstrong's armour appears to have been his chin, which was none too sturdy.With two good hands Jeffries might have stopped him.
He was a decent fighter, the sort you'd expect to give an up and comer a hard fight, but I think he was a long way below the level of Ruhlin. From what I've read of the fight, I get the impression a lot of it was how green Jeffries was. Both Jeffries and Sharkey were said to have improved a ton between their first and second fight, and the Armstrong fight was not long after the first Sharkey one. That might also explain a bit of a poor performance. Yank Kenny is a decent win of Armstrong's, one of the bigger fighters of the period.
Ruhlin is reported as having landed more punches in the opening round butJeffries punches were harder and he was making the fight.Even rd Gus began the 2nd rd well out boxing Jeffries and cutting his mouth,but his punches did not bother Jeff.Ruhlin rd Ruhlin began to look discouraged when his punches didn't affect Jeffries,whereas Jeffries was hurting him with body punches.Two left hooks to body and head had Ruhlin staggering and he claimed the body shot was low, but the ref was in no doubt it was fine. All the fight seemed to go out of Gus and Jeffries was really laying into his body with all his power behind his left hooks, several times Jeffries staggered him, and only the ropes kept him up .At the rounds end Ruhlin had a badly cut right eye ,and his lips were puffed and bloody . Jeffries dominated the 4th rd, flooring Ruhlin for a count of 8 and the writing appeared to be on the wall. Surprisingly Ruhlin came out somewhat rejuvenated in the 5th but his flurries did not bother Jeff.Jeffries landed a big right hand to the heart ,which noticeably slowed Ruhlin .Jeffries trapped him against he ropes and landed a volley of body punches that had Ruhlin wincing in pain, a double left to body and head floored Gus for a 7 count.Jeffries was all over him when the bell rang. Ruhlin's manager retired Gus between rounds.
