Kazuto Ioka: top 15 all time south of bantamweight already?

The thing is, Canto is a top 5 Flyweight ever. There is no way Ioka can match a win like that.

And Roman Gonzalez has wins over Estrada, Yaegashi (as a title holder), Fuentes, Villoria, Sosa and Cuedras (past his best weight).
Ioka is much better suited for Super fly than Gonzalez, and Id have to say that Rungvisai is a better opponent than probably all of Iokas resume.

 

Yeah, lots of this generally come down to quality VS quantity.
On Nietes, I'm not an expert on him, but I'd have to disagree on befuddling SRR. I think it would be similar to the first Estrada bout, and SRR would pound out a win, from what I've seen of Nietes. However, I'm very open to changing my mind on this.

Also, I think the one title eras are generally much stronger than the modern, splintered eras. Some people may even argue Ioka is not a 4 weight champion, as he held the 'Regular' titles in 2 divisions, while others like Gonzales were the 'super' champions, whom he should've really faced.

Regardless, I'm excited for where Ioka goes next, but I'm more excited for Inoue and Tanaka.

 

Man, you ain't lying. I remember being a teenager and seeing Ricardo Lopez fight for the first time. I collected and devoured all boxing magazines, and the Ring/KO issues were a non stop stream of pumping this guy up as a miniature Ray Robinson. Decent boxing skills and power but in no way hyper impressive. Didn't seem invincible in the subsequent fights I watched either. All kinds of defensive lapses and other issues.

 

Chang would beat him quite widely IMO.

 

Without hesitation, I will say...

Yes.
(Insert Daniel Bryan Gif here)

* Miguel Canto makes @McGrain's Top 100 All time. Quite frankly, no one that Ioka has faced will threaten to make that list. Getting one off of him and losing the other two by narrow margins is pretty remarkable.
* Shogi Oguma was a two time titleholder and a lineal champion toward the end of an already respectable career. I'd put him at the same level as Yaegashi (who is probably the most accomplished name on Kazuto's resume)

On the basis of those two names alone, I'd probably give Betulio the edge.

The you have Espadas and Vargas, plus...

* Prudencio Cardona was a former lineal flyweight titleholder who scored one of the scariest KO's in history against Avelar.
* Peter Mathebula (beaten twice) ,former world titleholder at flyweight
* Franco Udella was a former world titleholder at jr. flyweight
* Bernabe Villacampo, former world titleholder at flyweight

Consider that several of his loses were extremely close (Laciar, Ohba) and I think that tips the balance toward Betulio. The quality of the lower tier names on Betulio's lists matches those names listed, and the top tier exceeds the LOC that Ioka has faced.

 

I suppose that's just where we differ a bit, fella. I do rate Nietes fairly highly, at least on my interpretation of the eye test. He's a very smart, solid, skilled technician although most of his competition has been pish, which makes him harder to rate. Plus he's old as **** now and clearly on the way down and looking to cash out. Ioka deserves a rematch but I'm not convinced that a fighter on the level you think Ioka is should be needing one really, but hey ho. I don't think that Nietes is going to easily if at all circumnavigate a force like Sor Rungvisai if a more proven and slightly more talented fighter like Estrada couldn't do so, at least not when Srisaket wasn't being a plonker and fighting orthodox when he clearly wasn't comfortable doing so. He actually outcountered and outmanoevred Estrada to a reasonable degree in their first fight, he didn't just run him over with size and brute force. Similar to how Borkhorsor outgeneralled Rafa Herrera early in their fight I think. I know you already acknowledged that he isn't a caveman and has underrated skill and I'd go a step further to say that he is actually a fairly nuanced and smart fighter as well as being a light-welter sized physical brute with sandbags for fists. Very good natural timing, punch selection and cutting off the ring being somewhat masked by relative slowness and average defensive reflexes. Gonzalez was looking pretty shopworn and rather undersized against him as the Cuadras and Arroyo fights showed imo. Little shame in losing to such a fighter at that stage of your career, and I thought he won the first fight tbf. Hopefully Ioka and Nietes get to face him before he declines too much, they're fights I'd love to see.

I don't think that Ruenroeng is anywhere near the level of Canto, Laciar, Ohba etc or even quite on the same rung as Espadas or brilliant but frail natural forces like Ibarra and Park. Not really. If his ring is in the trillions then Cantos exceeds the known universe. My eyes obviously just tell me something different to what yours do, it's not the end of the world. Same for Reveco, Alvarado etc. Yaegashi is a bit closer, more like on the level of Oguma if you go strictly on perceived ability (Oguma was vastly more seasoned and proven against a wider array of good to great fighters). The one who faced Gonzalez and got hammered was a slightly better fighter than the one Ioka faced imo, but it was a unification fight which is with merit.

I respect your opinion but think we're probably singing from different sheets, it's all cool.

 

Great post son, beat me to it and then some.

 

I picture him posting in a Napoleon costume.

 

Yeah, I think that Srisaket at or near his best should be favoured over Nietes, especially this ageing version. Donnie has had a few close hard fights over the years other than Ioka: Vargas, Fuentes, Nantapech etc, none of whom are in Sor Rungvisai's class. He ain't a fighter you want to be tiring against or allowing to gather momentum in the later stages of a fight.

Agreed on Tanaka too, he's real talent on the offensive side of things but is also very static and upright defensively. Not a massive puncher either despite his aggressive box-punching style. He's only 24 and has time to hone his defence further but the amount of punches he took versus kimura worried me.

 

I don't know if I would put Watanabe Wonjongkam Zapata above Ioka