Prime Liston stops Quarry, any version. But 1970 Liston struggles to go the distance with 1970 Quarry.
Unless Liston got lucky v Quarry and opened up cuts ,as Ali did against Jerry . That's the only way I see Sonny getting the W .
If Liston had lived, you wonder if he would have played a part in Foremans corner or at the very least imparted a few tricks of the trade. Having said that, can you imagine if Sonny was in Foremans corner in Zaire? The fun Ali would have had with both of them.
The Great Sonny we prop up was gone by the late 60's. Who knows how old he was. A true enigma in the sport. His only substantial win, after Ali, was a stoppage of up and comer Henry Clark in 67/68. Forget Wepner!
According to my (admittedly incomplete) notes, immediately after the June 29 Wepner fight Liston was hoping for a bout with Quarry. Quarry had, of course, beat the undefeated and very highly ranked Mac Foster a couple of weeks before Liston - Wepner. However, there was talk that Quarry would face the August 3 Foreman-Chuvalo winner on October 30th, with the winner of THAT fight taking on Joe Frazier in February 1971. Can you imagine? Foreman beats Chuvalo, then beats Quarry (definitely not a given), then gets his shot at Frazier two years earlier than what actually happened. Ali's comeback scuttled a lot of plans. Anyway, in early July Liston is talking Quarry, but says he'd retire if he had another source of income. On July 3, Jose Luis Garcia beats Norton and LA matchmaker Don Chargin wires an offer to Liston to fight Garcia in August. Obviously, that fight doesn't come off, though I'm not sure why. In November, following George Chuvalo's TKO over 12-8 Tony Ventura, it's reported that Chuvalo will be boxing Liston in February 1971 in Montreal. Less than two weeks before his death, Friday, December 18th, Liston is arrested for drunken driving in Los Angeles. Regarding Liston-Wepner. I'd always assumed it was an insignificant fight that didn't warrant tv broadcast or even proper filming. But in doing some research I found it was a fight that stirred up some interest. Ali was in attendance and it was being written up in the papers. Dave Anderson of the New York Times wrote that the bout was "more interesting than significant." As I wrote above, there was interest in getting Liston in the ring again. It wasn't portrayed as Liston's last hurrah or anything.
I don't know. Frazier surely would've been a lot fresher. But Foreman's had a major career & experience building year in 1970. I'm not sure how much 1971 & 1972 helped him. It was like he was content to sit on the high rating he earned in 1970 by fighting no-hopers in 71 & 72, with a couple of exceptions. I think a Frazier-Foreman fight in early 1971 would've been more interesting & I certainly wouldn't count George out. But this is a Liston thread. I agree with previous posters. Quarry would likely have taken Liston apart. But Chuvalo might have been interesting (Chuvalo wins), and Garcia never really panned out after the win over Norton, though he was winning for a while.
Liston by decision or late round TKO on cuts. Liston still had skills. Quarry did well against big and strong punchers... Liston was more than that. Quarry wasn't hard to find and he wasn't hard to hit for a guy with good overall skill and good jab like Liston. I think it would be a good fight... due to Liston being past-prime... but Quarry still wouldn't be able to get the win. This result leaves one thing in common between these two fighters... they both defeated only one Hall of Famer and it was the same Hall of Famer... Floyd Patterson. Quarry really struggled vs. a past-prime Patterson. These guys were really on two different levels.
I went back and read the comments. Quarry remains the most overrated guy on this forum and it's been that way for many years. Honorable mention goes to Liston though... but at least he really is an all-time great. Cleveland Williams is also overrated on here but not as much as he used to be. I find it hilarious how you guys have to come up with these scenarios in order for your great white hope to get a win over an all-time great... I don't even think he deserved the win or draw vs. a past-prime Patterson. Quarry wasn't that special people, get over it.
I would pick a prime Liston to beat Joe Frazier, a 40 year old Sonny? probably not. But style wise Sonny had the tools to beat Joe
Sonny was sinned agaisnt as much as he was a sinner. I know he did bad things but looking at the circumstances he had from birth. I think it's amazing that he achieved as much as he did. He could have been a serial killer or something much worse than he was. I wouldnt look down on him at all.
Oh I agree. I cannot look down on him at all. He achieved greatness. But Liston was under no illusion. Sonny was as aware he was being used only for as long as still had currency just as much as many a bitter fighter ever was. He knew there was a price. I think maybe he tried to be a good guy at times, but like a lot of exploited people, he saw things for what they were and was all out of trust. He had talent. He had the opportunity - and he knew it was conditional.
Liston had a sharp wit. He wasn't educated but he was far from dumb. One of his friends said that Sonny was "a nice guy"...."when he wasn't drinking" I've known a few people like that. They go from peaceful to terror and can't get far enough away from them.
