Was Muhammad Ali the fastest heavyweight of all time?

Probably as well is the fact that we see a lot more of Ali , he's famous for his speed . Dokes never had the limelight on him as much .

 

He was likely the fastest excellent big man .. a few may have been faster w hands like Patterson but he was way at the top ... he was the fastest overall mover for sure ..

 

What was scientific about the hand speed timing? And I know you've mentioned this a bunch in the past but this is the first time you claimed that Ali's jab was "MUCH" faster than Robinson's. Do you have any sources where we can read about this in more detail?

 

There are two videos on YouTube. One is of Jim Jacobs who was involved/initiated the testing and another of Ali describing the testing/results. From memory Ali’s jab was 2-3 times as quick as SRR jab. You would need to look for them yourself. All this is very well know history BTW.

 

Has anyone else seen these videos or read detailed descriptions of the "scientific" test that Jacobs used here? The test and Jacobs' (alleged) conclusions sound like junk to me.

 

No. Well known boxing history. You should question your knowledge of the sport if you are not keenly aware of this.

 

I know that Sports Illustrated timed a single Ali jab with an omegascope. I don't know anything about how Jacobs actually went about timing Robinson's jab. And I doubt you do either. I have no idea how Robinson would have performed in a similar testing condition. That makes the "scientific test" and your whole talking point suspect. So like I said, sounds like junk to me.

 

I'm with you on this , Ali's hand speed was superior to all heavyweights with the possible exception of M. Dokes, possibly J.Louis( And if were talking speed with power and technique, no one was close to J.Louis) Other than those two, no one else was close, and no heavyweight was even close to his foot speed and overall reflexes.

 

Monte Cox has discussed this on his site.

I believe, from memory, that Ali's jab was timed as being one third faster than SRR's jab. They measured the time that it took Ali's jab to get to full extension versus the time that it did so for SRR's on film. The clear flaw here for me is that a more apt comparison would have been versus prime welterweight speed SRR for a truer idea of how fast Ali's jab stacks up. I do qualify this with noting that even at MW, SRR was a speedy, fluid operator on film - Ali has no business throwing punches faster than a quick MW.

I often ponder the conundrum of if Ali is the quickest, smoothest overall mover of established HW great fighters and Tyson for me is the most explosive over short distances on film, is Ali perceived as quicker because it's graceful and remniscent of Pep, Elorde, Robinson whilst stylistic preference makes Tyson take a backseat because he's coming forward ala how Duran doesn't get his dues for me for just how quick his speed was within his elite skillset?

 

Well stated META!

 

The test was run by one of the major film labs...Kodak?

 

There are actually a ton of potential flaws, since we have no idea how Jacobs went about choosing a comparison SRR jab or how accurate his measurement approach was (sounds sketchier than the omegascope). I also have no idea how much variance to expect from pro punchers flicking a single punch at a target 16 inches away. Would have been cool if some other fighters had hit the same balsa board as Ali.

We know that Ali had a very fast jab, but I don't know that these tests tell us anything beyond that. Too many unanswered questions for the Robinson comparison to be meaningful.

 

Agreed on many flaws apparent, not exactly the most scientific method.

Anyone that's fought in the ring, sparred in training, shadowboxed and hit the speedbag knows that the perception of fast hands can change dramatically depending on whom the opponent is. It's like the punching balls at the arcade that measure power - all good and well until you actually hit a live opponent. Hitting a balsa board is very different from landing jabs versus a prime Tyson who moves extremely well.

I'm fairly happy that overall reflex and speed, Ali and Tyson are the sharpest guys and p4p beasts in every sense of the word.