Frazier was a monster, my fav heavy ever, he had different attributes that made HIM great, more skilled than Toney he was not...H2H Frazier stops him giving him a beating for a ref stoppage,BUT HE WAS NOT MORE SKILLED.Both top of the food chain atg's..Do you honestly think Joe was more skilled ??? If you said a Floyd Patterson then I could half see if we are sticking to the original argument of Ali's opponents.
James Toney would absolutely embarrass Frazier. Not even a contest! It'd be another repeat of the Vassily Jirov bout for me. Joe Frazier is TOTALLY tailor made for James Toney's style and strengths. Frazier also lacks the power to KO granite chinned Toney. Frazier is BEYOND overrated!
Ali is an outdated and an obsolete version of Oleksandr Usyk. Basically a HUGE downgrade. Like comparing Windows 10 to Windows 98 (if even that). He probably wouldn't even qualify as a heavyweight today, but as a cruiser-weight. A prime Ali would be too small for any of the giants today, who would simply walk him down and overwhelm him (Jarrell Miller style). So the question should be who would be the worst-style match-up for Ali out of the cruiser-weights today. Mairis Breidis for instance, would be one. and so would Murat Gassiev (based on Ali's trouble against a weaker version of Gassiev in Frazier).
Joe Louis didn't have exceptional footwork and wasn't nearly as fast as Ali. Ali would've outboxed him soundly and probably stopped him. Lennox, Klitschkos and Fury would be difficult due to their size, skills and intelligence.
In that video he mostly uses an ear-muff defense and he's repeatedly getting touched up. It's very Winky Wright. Please review the film on Ali pre-retirement for virtuouso head movement and defense.
Nortons defense didn't trouble Ali nearly as much as his pressure , workrate , trip hammer jab and whipping left hook did. Defense isn't beating Ali , constant application of pressure is. Ali wasn't prime when he fought Norton either.
I completely disagree! Toney would have a better chance against a puncher who needs room to get off than a swarmer like Frazier. I don't think Toney's go to the ropes defensive tactics would be wise against an in your face much harder punching fighter than he is. Toney's waist movements wouldn't do him much good against a Frazier would would radar his body. I'd pick Frazier by late stoppage in a competive but clear outcome where Joe was winning at the time of the stoppage.
Like Foreman people take Ali's best younger version attributes like speed and footwork and also the best older version attributes like extra mass and better chin/resilience. They then create some super fighter that all of these qualities. These things never existed at the same time. Just like 220lb Foreman's chin in the 70s was not as good as the 260lb Foreman of the 90s. If 185lb Henry Cooper's hook knocked down 'prime' 1960s Ali can you imagine what Wlad's would have done.
