This thread is about P4P anyway and I don't see Shavers touching Fitz or Langford in that aspect, even if you have him higher than Louis.
They had different money punches, and that gave them success against different types of opponents (and vice versa). Shavers tended to do well against taller outboxer types, but sometimes struggled against shorter guys. Tua would tend to blast shorter fighters to kingdom come, but look like a walking punchbag against taller jabber types. Saying that, I've never seen anyone drop HWs as brutally as Tua did, without absolutely leathering them first. Tua tended to touch them a few times with his left and they'd just crumble. That to me indicates next level power that someone like Shavers never demonstrated.
Baer has more KOs over top opponents than Tua does, 3 deaths and without the technical skill of Louis or Tyson, his power was raw and there's a real chance his best form never came out. Tua's most meaningful KO came from a punch after the bell...
Why? He had tremendous power, among the most impressive HWs ever in terms of eye-test in that aspect. He was also better fighter than Tua with more impressive KO resume.
You can see Langford in three different fights, all against bigger fighters, all leading to a huge beating. He showed amazing power in footage we have, much more impressive than Shavers or Tua in my opinion. Also, if you are not impressed with middleweight stopping 200+lbs durable heavyweights with body punches, then I don't know what can impress you.
Who would you put forth as these 200+ pound durable heavyweights? Personally i don't go too silly over the days of yore when supposedly top shelf heavyweights were getting beaten by middleweights. Sure doesn't say much for the heavyweights in most cases.
Gus Ruhlin was almost killed by Fitz in 6 rounds, mostly because of the body shots. Ed Dunkhorst wasn't good fighter but he was always praised for his durability and Fitz stopped him in 2nd round (he was way over 200 lbs and much bigger than Bob). That's two and he also KOed early many fighters in 180-200 lbs range too. They weren't getting beaten by middleweights. They were getting beaten by one middleweight and his name was Bob Fitzsimmons. He was a freak, rare exception. It's not about the era, nobody in his era did simialr things to him. Also, even if you assume that HWs were very bad back then, they weren't any less durable and Fitz stopped them with body shots. That would be impressive in any era, even against subpar competiton. Fitz did that against the best competition in the world, the only man he couldn't stop was Jeffries and he dominated all other relevant heavyweights in his prime.
And that's my issue with fighters that have little to no film on them . There are so many factors that that can make a ko more spectacular then it actually was, prime example I'll use is the Gatti vs Gamche fight years back, around the turn of the century. If a person is a casual fan of the sport, or just started watching boxing after you tube began it looks like one of the most devastating knock-outs ever filmed (And actually it was) But once the circumstances of that fight are revealed than one can see that travesty was doomed to happen. And that fight was during the film era, now imagine how many times that may have happened 80-100 yrs ago! How many of those ko artist feasted on fighters that were smaller ? Or fighters that were boxing in some alley way, or dock who may have had rudimentary skill level boxing.
Outside of Langford no one ever did similar things, I wish we had his KO of Zender, what a display of power that would be
Or Dunkhorst, or even Ruhlin. The one that would be also amazing and possible to see is his 1st round KO over Maher because it was supposed to be filmed. Not sure if it's true though, but maybe someone has that in collection.
So you don't believe that they faced bigger guys? Fitz was a middleweight champion beating heavyweights, are you really trying to tell me that all of the 1890s and 1900s boxing history is fabricated? We have three fights of Langford, in all of them he was visibly smaller man and KO heavyweights.
Didn't say that. My question is simply how skilled were those bigger guys? Sure a well schooled smaller fighter can defeat a much bigger bar room brawler. My point is there is no way to actually verify how good those opponents were (Are how bad). Other than pure hearsay. What someone wrote a 100 yrs ago.
