Who’s the hardest hitting boxer of all time?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Jul 13, 2019.



  1. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    The "narrative" comes from watching the film of his fights. He wasn't especially fast or proficient at stringing combinations together. I'll take back the slow tag, but his speed was distinctly average compared to many HWs.

    Not a patch on the Ruiz or Moorer KOs, is it? As for lack of footage, well that's just something we all have to deal with in debates like these.
     
  2. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He wasn't slow and I don't see him being slower than Tua or Shavers. He had also much faster legs than them.

    The difference is that Comiskey was durable fighter while Moorer was past his prime with weak chin and Ruiz was young, unexperienced and also far from elite chin. I don't dispute that these two KOs looks impressive but just because Baer wasn't as agressive as Tua doesn't make him weaker puncher. Foreman never had 30 seconds KOS either due to different style, but I'd pick him over Tua in terms of power too.
     
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  3. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    Footspeed, I'll give you that. Handspeed? Nah.

    Tua could reel off three hooks in under a second. His hands weren't slow at all.

    How old was Comiskey when Baer fought him? How many world class opponents had he fought?

    How many times has Ruiz been stopped in his career?
     
  4. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He had more fights than either Tua or Ruiz when they fought each other.
     
  5. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    That's not what I asked.
     
  6. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I know, Pat was 20 years old when he fought Baer. He also was 29-1-1, so it's not like he was complete novice. He didn't fought anybody elite at that point, though he had a nice win over Bob Skies.

    My point is that Ruiz wasn't any more accomplished than Comiskey when Tua beat him. He was 27 fights fighter and he already lost twice. He was not in his prime yet. If you don't count Baer win over Comiskey as an impressive sign of his power, don't do the same with Tua and Ruiz.
     
  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    All good.

    I've only watched a couple of versions but the ones i have barely really show the blow and i can't deduce much at all. Maybe i am watching the wrong versions.

    Yes he was durable in his day, very much so. Again i am still not convinced they were travel across era's well but we could assume him to be durable none the less i guess.

    I would not doubt he had lots more.
     
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  8. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Here is the clearest version I could find (along with slow motion), though there are probably better ones that are not available in the Internet:

    https://streamable.com/zu6g2
     
  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm not trying to be argumentative or nasty but i really can't see how anyone could make much of that let alone describe it glowingly.
     
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  10. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    KO punch is visible, Fitz feinted high punch, Corbett tried to counter with his jab and Fitz stepped in with a killer body shot that KO Corbett. I know, the quality is far from perfect but even with these cameras you can clearly feel the power of the blow and it wasn't a lucky punch, Fitz set it up.
     
  11. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    No, that wasn't your point. Here's what you wrote:

    "The difference is that Comiskey was durable fighter while Moorer was past his prime with weak chin and Ruiz was young, unexperienced and also far from elite chin."

    You've already gone back on one of those points. Care to address the others?

    Tua rocked Ruiz with the first power punch he threw, about seven seconds into the contest. He then followed up with nine shots, one of which missed, five of which looked to be partially blocked, three of which clearly landed (one, possibly two of which were superfluous as Ruiz was already on his way down). The time between the first bell sounding and Ruiz lying on the floor happened in under fifteen seconds. Ruiz was on the canvas, unresponsive for about a minute, maybe more.

    So in under fifteen seconds and with just three or four punches Tua knocked unconscious a man who'd never been knocked out before and wouldn't go on to get stopped until his final fight thirteen years later by a prime David Haye, who threw the kitchen sink at him and could only succeed in getting a TKO. So yeah, I think I'll count that as an impressive sign of his power, thanks.

    Want me to do the same with Baer/Comiskey? It won't make for pretty reading.
     
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  12. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sure, do that. But try not to be biased.
     
  13. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    Both fighters start off jabbing. Baer catches Pat on the side/back of the head with a looping overhand about 25 seconds in and follows with a flurry that looks to be partially blocked (hard to see on the camera angle), although he catches Pat clean on the chin with at least one of them (a short right with good leverage). Pat appears to be unfazed. There's a bit more infighting and Baer throws a digging uppercut and left hook that looks to be blocked.

    There's some more jabbing and inconsequential stuff thrown by Baer, a couple of long hooks (one lands) and a straight to the body that's stymied. We're now more than halfway into the round. At about 1:40 of the round Baer clocks Pat with another overhand right that looks and sounds like it has clean connection, followed by a missed left hook. Again Pat appears to be unfazed. He follows with another OH right as Pat bulls forward to attack Baer's ribcage. This connects but doesn't seem as hard.

    Baer throws another OH right that looks to hurt Pat slightly, and Baer starts pouring it on, catching him with a couple of clean right hands and some uppercuts (two short lefts, one right, two uppercuts, another right, a missed left to be precise). They break and Baer catches Pat with two more fully leveraged right hands that don't deter him, since he goes straight back to attacking Baer's ribcage. Baer throws another OH right that looks to hurt Pat, followed by a couple of short lefts and another short right that connects, followed by an uppercut. Pat looks a little the worse for wear at this point and is trying to clinch.

    At just under two minutes into the round Baer catches Pat with another overhand right that connects cleanly on his chin and drops him. Pat gets to his feet almost immediately, but as per the rules of the sport, drops to his knee to avoid taking a shellacking while he's still trying to recover. Baer follows with some haymakers that miss, and a right that doesn't. He catches Pat with another OH right that looks like it's stunned him, another right (not clean) and a left that Pat takes full on the chin, then three more clean shots on the ropes, before Ref Dempsey separates.

    Baer goes in for the kill with another OH right (missed) and a clean left, then a left and a rabbit punch to a prone Pat leaning over on the ropes. He waves in the ref who stops it with Comiskey still leaning over on the ropes making no motion to move. Fight is stopped at about 2:30 minutes into the first round.

    In that time Baer caught Comiseky with ten clean right hands (possibly more, it's hard to see in that initial flurry) and about that same number of clean lefts (again, hard to be precise here), plus a number of short uppercuts, deflected shots, and some jabs. Assuming that he caught Pat with twentyish clean punches (the lower number favours Baer here) then he took five to seven times as many punches to stop his man than Tua did, and failed to KO his opponent cleanly since he required a ref stoppage when his opponent was turned away on the ropes. If we factor in the other shots Baer landed, the uppercuts and partially blocked/deflected shots that still looked like they did some damage, then that ratio goes up to about ten to one.

    This isn't of course taking into account the timeframe over which all this occurred, and which I freely accept is more of a stylistic issue than a purely power-based one.

    So given that we can assume Comiskey and Ruiz had a similar level of durability at the time would you now accept that Tua punches significantly harder than Baer, given their respective performances? If not, why not?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
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  14. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    The punch that knocked Comiskey down was great, but he got back up and the finish was messy, Tua sparked Ruiz out cold, Baer looked messy, some punches were harder than others, he was all over the place, Tua was far more deadly, his punches were shorter, Baer`s were just wild swings, Chomiskey walked straight into the right hand that caught him adding more impact to the shots, most of Baers other rights couldn`t land sweet at all and had far less impact, I don`t feel Baer was a good finisher at all, M.Tyson`s feet were far quicker since you mentioned footspeed.
     
  15. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Anyone giving Pat Comiskey a chance to last 6 rounds against Moorer or Tua?