Why Holmes would NOT be better equipped against Frazier than Ali was

Nobody stopped Joe's hook. Holmes never faced anyone close to Frazier in style. Assuming he's going to stop Joe Frazier left hook is a mighty foolish assumption. The truth is if you can't backup Joe Frazier consistently then you're in trouble. He's going to get inside he's going to land his hook he's going to rip your body apart it would be a test of wills Larry was tough but he would be hanging on.

 

Never stated it would be an easy win however Holmes had the technical tools to stop a hooker. Ali in contrast was wide open for this punch at least in 1971. He improved a bit later on certainly.

The punch to beat Holmes was a right hand which Frazier lacked. Larry was not open for hooks as he sidestepped to his left well and caught hooks readily with his elbow and glove. He was also a well trained athlete who could go the distance and he had that all time will to win and chin.

 

ETM you have no clue.

Ali knocked down and stopped Chuvalo with a massive left hook. Yes I know there were two other knockdowns but that hook was the killer.

Ali’s right hand knocked down and stopped many fighters... Williams, Foley, Liston and Foreman just for starters.

He also has the greatest jab in boxing history.

Ali’s coordinations to throw any punch in the book fluidly and perfectly is undisputed.

 

Yea your delusions are not worth arguing about.
According to you Ali and Holmes were 0 handed fighters. Ali fought 41 rounds with Joe Frazier he never scored a single knock down. He fought Ken Norton 3 times name he scored how many knockdowns? So along with Holmes they are 0 handed fighters. If it can't score knockdown then they don't have it.
So there's your "logic" and that didn't take very long to get it?

 

Correct. Bonavena.

 

Ali knocked down Chuvalo did he? Give me whatever he is drinking.

 

Frazier had no right hand. Take tome to understand what that phrase means in boxing terminology. You lack the understanding of the definition.

 

And Jimmy Ellis put him down too twice it's all meaningless it's all in your mind.

 

Your delusions don't actually equal boxing terminology just rather annoying.

 

Here's what Ken Norton said about their jabs -

KO: You also exchanged jabs with three of the greatest jabbers of all time: Ali, Foreman, and Holmes.
Who was the best?

Ken Norton: Ali. His jab was quick and it was deceptive. Ali was Ali. His combinations were crisp and sharp. His jab was crisp and sharp. His right hand lead wasn't really powerful, but it was very accurate. There will never be another Ali.

 

You make good points. Witherspoon landed numerous left hooks in that sensational 9th round against Holmes and Weaver landed his share flush as well in their epic. Holmes can be hit with hooks as can anyone and Frazier has the greatest composite left hook in heavyweight history.

The only way you stop Frazier's left hook is by knocking him out early. That ain't happening here. There's only a handful at best who would have a reasonable chance of getting Frazier out early. The figure might even be 1.

I've never bought Ali being susceptible to the left hook either. He'd just turned 20 when dropped in his 11th pro fight by Banks and was 194 1/2 pounds. Cooper turned the trick 16 months later and then it was all up and up. He defeated Liston a great left hooker and then cruised past Floyd Patterson who also had a fantastic left hook.

He cruised past Cooper in a rematch when Ali was basically peak. He was never the same fighter when he came back but beat Quarry x 2 who had an excellent left hook and he actually beat Frazier and his relentless 2 out of 3 times. Foreman's left hook had bounced Norton and Frazier all over the floor but Ali had no such problems.

Throw Holmes and all the rest of them in against Liston, Frazier x 3, Quarry x 2, Foreman, Patterson x 2 and i'd love to see who didn't have any problem with left hooks. Particularly given Ali was past peak for almost all of it.

 

It always makes me laugh when people bring up the close fights with Norton, what people have to remember is Ali didn’t fight Norton until his 43rd professional fight, of which some of those included wars with ATGs, and after many many amateur fights and after a 3 and a half year lay off and fighting for at least 10 years at that stage ,Ali’s reflexes and speed had deteriorated with age and because of my the previous points mentioned. Even though 31-32 years isn’t mega old it’s a little like a newish car with a few hundred thousand miles on the clock it’s still a newish car but as had some hammer so therefore doesn’t perform as well. To beat Frazier you need speed which Ali had more of than Holmes especially pre lay off and to take a body punch which not many more heavies could do better than Ali,plus durability which I feel Ali had the edge also if the 1st Frazier fight had a have been in 68-69 with no lay off for Ali I think his extra speed and reflexes, and youth at that stage plus being an active champion would have seen him through, I’m not sure Holmes would have quite had enough.

 

What wars with ATG’s did Ali have up to his first fight against Norton. You can say the first fight with Frazier but what were the others?