Lets settle the did tyson duck foreman debate

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-10-27/sports/sp-857_1_mike-tyson-fight

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1991-07-09/sports/1991190071_1_tyson-holyfield-foreman

"Two days after Tyson outpointed Donovan "Razor" Ruddock in Las Vegas on June 28, King flew to Houston to woo Foreman with a $20 million offer to fight Tyson.

King's deal would net Foreman more than a Holyfield rematch, but Foreman has long been suspicious of King, and Foreman's longtime adviser, Ron Weathers, is even more distrustful of King."

https://www.nytimes.com/1991/07/18/...&gwh=385992ED1057522D75FD0EB43D113FA9&gwt=pay

"The suit, filed Tuesday in Harris County District Court, contends that Holyfield, Duva and Finkel entered into a contract July 9 that stated that Foreman would meet Holyfield in a rematch of their April 19 bout, won by Holyfield on a unanmious decision. The contract called for Foreman to be paid $12.5 million and 50 percent of the pay-per-view receipts over $7 million. It would have paid Holyfield a reported $20 million.

As part of the agreement with Holyfield, Foreman agreed to halt nearly completed negotiations for a fight with Tyson, in which he could have earned $20 million. Asked today if there were contracts between Foreman and Holyfield, Duva replied, "Absolutely no."

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1996-07-02-1996184111-story.html

"We made Lewis an offer of $13.5 million, but he opted to take $4 million to step aside for us to fight Seldon because he's contractually obligated to HBO, which has continually blocked our efforts to make the fight."

King said ongoing negotiations for a possible October fight with Evander Holyfield would be put on hold if Lewis, who is the WBC's No. 1 contender, agrees by Saturday to fight Tyson. But King said he doesn't think that will happen.

"We know Lennox Lewis does not truly want to fight Mike Tyson, and if this continues and we can't make the deal, we'll relinquish the WBC title," King said.

Assuming the Lewis fight doesn't take shape, an ideal path after the Seldon bout would include the winner of an anticipated match between International Boxing Federation champ Michael Moorer and Frans Botha.

Next would be 6-7, 232-pound Englishman Henry Akinwande (30-0-1, 18 KOs), who last Saturday claimed the WBO title -- vacated earlier by Bowe -- with a third-round KO of Jeremy Williams (26-2).

Tyson then would fight the winner of a Lewis-McCall bout for Tyson's vacated WBC crown.

 

So much misinformation. The powers that be were looking to get George and Tyson together way before Foreman stopped Cooney. The only reason would be huge public interest.

 

George unretired because of money.

Lewis rejected a $13.5 million dollar offer from Tyson and accepted step aside money instead. Incidentally, when he fought Holyfield in 1999 he accepted a $10 million dollar guarantee. Lewis has a tendency of turning down career high offers and playing the victim card. He did the same with Bowe in 1993 when he turned down an $11 million dollar guarantee.

Who was Tua in 1995? When Tyson came out of prison they initially wanted Foreman as an opponent but Don King suggested that Tyson being incarcerated might alienate him with boxing fans so they needed to pick an opponent that would rally the crowd behind Tyson. So they chose McNeely. Mathis was a stay busy fight and Bruno and Seldon had belts.

Mercer lost back to back fights against Holyfield and Lewis, usually that puts you out of contention. He actually tried to fight Mercer in 2001 but Lewis sued Tyson to force him to their contract and fight so the fight was squashed.

Foreman knew that calling out Tyson while fighting corpses would make noise in the division. But his choice of opponents didn't show that he was capable of beating Tyson. Foreman refused to fight Mercer, Bowe, Lewis, Ruddock. What makes you think he would dared stepped in the ring with Tyson? This wasn't 1973 Foreman, he was older, fatter and slower. He only fought top level guys when a title was on the line. Without a belt he refused to step up. Remember George Foreman sued Evander Holyfield to force a rematch and in the process he rejected a $20 million dollar offer from Don King to fight Mike Tyson. Who's ducking who?

 

I have always said George did very well to navigate himself into a very respectable record in his second career. Amazing really. And yes, he was correct to start off the way he did, starting his career over as if he were a new prospect. He was always giving away age, but never experience and wise not to give away weight, height or reach if he could help it. A template Larry Holmes was wise to follow.

George was sensible, aware of his limitations, and a brilliant match maker for himself. He deservedly won manager of the year, struck great deals for himself. You just can’t take it away from him. George’s second career was a real business success.

In truth, as far as the boxing went, as he moved up, There were some fortunate decisions that do not pass reasonable scrutiny. And it was because George was big box office.

You could line up the guys George Fought in his comeback and a lot of fighters in the top ten would have done a much better job on them.

His best win was probably Pierre Coetzee. That one stands out. But even by that standard it was not above Ray Mercer, Frans Botha p, Brian Nielsen kind of fare. That was his level.

 

Tyson would have had to alter his entire fight style to beat George...and we all know that never worked out for him.

Sooner or later Mike gets hit flush...it's impossible for him (with the only style that ever worked for him) to fight the way he did and not get caught by BG's uppercut. Only Bowe could compare to that punch (Bowe's of course was faster but quite close in power).

Mike couldn't take the punch of Douglas or Holyfield (I don't count Lewis, too far down road).

Foreman would land. Tyson out.

George had good reason to call the round during Letterman, at that point he was on point.

All that conjecture made, I'm not sure the Foreman who struggled with his 2nd term challengers could have beaten Mike though. George just didn't hit as effectively after Moorer imo.

 

The comeback version of George, in all reality was no better than Frans Botha or Brian Nielsen. He posed no more threat than that to Tyson.

People need to stop including the full legacy of George in a match against Tyson. The available version was limited at top level.

 

I always thought and still think that George would have beat Mike.
George was a crouch fighters worst nightmare. I do feel he avoided George, because let’s be honest at any given time had he fought George the public interest would have been off the charts, and so would have been the payday.

 

The version that fought Joe Frazier has a great chance against Tyson, more than the George Foreman that fought Alex Stewart.

 

Here's the thing, it's not that Tyson couldn't take the punches of Douglas or Holyfield on a shot for shot basis, it was the accumulation of punches that was the issue. He took some heavy leather from Ruddock who was a very big puncher so power really isn't a prerequisite to beating Tyson. After all, how many clean punches did Lewis have to land against a docile Tyson to put him out? And even then Tyson was totally coherent in the end.

Holyfield and Douglas also used movement that kept them away from Tyson effectively neutralizing his offense. Foreman isn't a mover, he will be right there in front of Mike. Are you suggesting that Tyson won't land anything flush? That somehow Tyson's own punching power which was good as Foreman's is somehow going to disappear? As I recall Micheal Moorer stood in front of Foreman for the majority of their fight. His chin isn't as sturdy as Tyson's.

The public interest was there, and Don King offered George Foreman $5 million in 1990. They were to fight in Beijing. Foreman declined and shortly after he went on the Letterman show. Then he was offered $20 million and he declined in favor of a Holyfield rematch. He went as far as to sue Holyfield to prevent him from facing Mike Tyson.

Tyson's promoter, Don King, fearful that the former champion might end their boxing relationship as a result of a Holyfield-Foreman rematch, finally agreed to accept a $15 million guarantee for Tyson. Holyfield will get $30 million.

Finkel said last week that the terms of the Holyfield-Tyson agreement call for Foreman to fight the winner. But King said this was a fabrication.

Arum said the $100 million suit was based on "treble damages."

He said: "We passed up a $20 million offer for George to fight Tyson. We would have shared in the site fee and pay-per-view promotion. We also have to figure on lost revenue if George had whipped Holyfield. But, to be honest, we'd settle for $50 million."

As Weathers told the New York Post this week: "George wants to fight, not sue people. We laughed, then cried when we found out about Holyfield-Tyson. You've got to protect yourself more outside the ring than in it. It's a tough business, and George is just protecting himself now."

Neither Duva nor Finkel was available for comment yesterday. Foreman, however, drew little sympathy from King or his advisers.

"George tried to be a 'cutie-pie' and got outfoxed," said King's matchmaker, Al Braverman.

"We had offered him $20 million to fight Tyson and he turned it down. That was his biggest boo-boo. Plus he was guaranteed $10 million for two other fights on HBO this year. Actually, I think George was afraid of getting his butt kicked by Tyson."

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1991-07-18-1991199099-story.html

 

The minute he became a star and drew $. There is no dispute about Foreman's star power. That fight Tyson/Foreman would have shattered PPV records.

 

That may be true, but it is hard to imagine the fight actually being competitive.

 

I'm not sure you are aware of this but Foreman beat a guy called Michael Moorer to win the lineal title. He knocked him O-U-T! So it's safe to say at one point LINEAL CHAMPION was his level.

Moorer had never been beaten. Moorer in his previous fight beat Evander Holyfield who in his previous fight beat Riddick Bowe. So to make it very simple Foreman beat the guy who beat Evander and Moorer beat the guy who beat Bowe - all in their previous fights.

Foreman was then rated the #1 heavyweight in the world by Ring.

You can spin it any way you want but pretending it didn't happen won't make it go away. To make it worse Moorer beat an undefeated Botha even after Foreman ko'd him.

 

Normally, I wouldn't give Foreman much chances. He had really good style to beat Mike though. He was much stronger physically, he kept coming no matter how many punches you landed and he was willing to push smaller fighters with ease. Unless Mike would change his style a bit, I see really big obstacle to overcome for him.

 

This features points I stand by myself.

It's been easy for me to imagine for years. Tyson chokes on George's jab coming in. When he finally gets in George's uppercut lifts him off the floor. Mike didn't have an iron chin. Mike falls down and stays down.

Unless Mike decides to change his entire, life long style and start dancing...nahh, he'd still lose because he couldn't take a flush shot from Foreman.

There's no changing my mind on this, simply because there's no changing either man's style. Prime or old, Mike falls in two at the outside.