Prime Sonny Liston vs Ortiz that Wilder fought

Liston by ko

 

Ortiz wasn't in the best condition, he gassed quickly when he had Wilder hurt. He would be dangerous for Sonny, as he's quite skilled southpaw with heavy punch and smart counterpunching ability but I wouldn't favor him over Liston. Sonny would probably KO him in late rounds. Good, thrilling fight.

 

Liston early KO

 

Yeah he was drug tested

 

Liston beats the s@## out of Ortiz

 

First impulse is to pick Liston, but Ortiz is really big, tough, durable and fairly skilled and smart. He can also punch. Im picking Ortiz.

 

I believe Sonny Liston only faced one southpaw in his 54-fight career - Gerhard Zech - who was a fairly ordinary guy. And it took Liston seven rounds to stop him (others did it much faster).

Heavyweights back then didn't face many southpaws, if any. Liston, apparently, fought one. And he never fought anyone who weighed 240, like Ortiz routinely does.

Ortiz would've posed all sorts of problems for Liston, stylistically and in terms of power.

I don't see this being an easy fight for Liston at all. Ortiz wasn't the 5'7" 190-pound Albert Westphal.

Liston would've been facing a guy bigger than him, 30 pounds heavier, who was a southpaw, had an extensive international amateur career and could bang with the best of them.

Again, a pick' em fight. Likely would've been a total war.

 

Liston KOs Ortiz in 5-7 one sided rounds. Ortiz was out of shape, tentative, and cleary not on his PEDs for that fight. Not that Ortiz would win even with his PEDs.

 

Sonny is arrested after this fight for killing Ortiz, charged with third round manslaughter

 

Liston never fought boxers like that, so its a total guess how he would do, if his opponent wasn´t 20 pounds lighter than him.
Ortiz was no joke and quick too. Thats no Eddie Machen, who took Sonny the distance....

 

Except he beat:

Gerhard Zech (6'5 southpaw)
Elmer Rush (6'2 and 214 lbs)
Bill McMurray (6'4 and 210 lbs)
Henry Clark (6'3 and 220 lbs)
Chuck Wepner (6'5 and 228 lbs)
Mike DeJohn (6'2.5 and 205 lbs)
Nino Valdes (6'3 and 215 lbs)

As far as I know, Liston didn't fought at ~250 lbs so your take on 20 lbs advantage is invalid.

 

Gerhard Zech (6'5 southpaw) A stringbean who fought 5'7" Westphal for 11 rounds at 196lb. No Ortiz.
Elmer Rush (6'2 and 214 lbs) Fought at 196 before Liston too, Cruiserweights!! NO Ortiz!
Bill McMurray (6'4 and 210 lbs) Another CW. Old Floyd Patterson knocked him out three rounds before Sonny. No no Ortiz!
Henry Clark (6'3 and 220 lbs) Another CW who started at 183, tons of losses. NO NO NO Ortiz!
Chuck Wepner (6'5 and 228 lbs) Might be the only one, fought at 202 one year before.
Mike DeJohn (6'2.5 and 205 lbs) CW. NO Ortiz!!!
Nino Valdes (6'3 and 215 lbs) Another CW at the end of his career with XX losses. No SHW Ortiz for gods sake!!!

The way you have it with numbers, can you please stop this incorrectness?

Liston weighted 210-218. His median opponents weight was 198 pounds!! As far as I know, only GF has a higher weight advantage, but that includes beeing 260 pounds in his comeback.

Liston feasted on smaller men on regular basis. Thats not me, thats the numbers!

 

Ortiz - even the grandpa version - is pretty good. He's Wilder's best win. I think he'd give Liston a run for his money ... for a while, anyway. You kind of have to favour Liston here I think.

 

Will someone please discuss the best wins of Ortiz? Both his Amateur and Pro career highlights are being greatly exaggerated. He certainly has a good amateur background, but he was never Cuba's best Heavyweight or Super Heavyweight fighter. He never represented them at the Olympics, and never achieved any kind of meaningful success on the international level. His best wins in the pros are arguably over a 45 year old Bert Cooper, a 43 year old Monte Barrett, a 45 year old Tony Thompson, and a Bryant Jennings who started boxing in his late 20s with less than 20 Amateur fights. Ortiz is a decent fighter. But, he is not in Sonny Liston's league.