Prime Sonny Liston vs Ortiz that Wilder fought

Why should I waste my time with someone starting a "Langford vs. Wilder - Thread"?

If you don´t understand that Liston did rarely prove modern HW aspects (not just against Ortiz), go for it.

 

Rarely, but he did.

 

To be fair to Ortiz he was about 5 years past his best when he fought Wilder. Even just three years before he fought Wilder Ortiz had a much better work rate and was quicker on his feet.

 

Excellent post!

 

Your standard cop out IGNORE! = I'm not playing anymore, it's my ball and I'm taking it and going home!lol

 

As I said in my first post, Ortiz wouldn't be easy for Sonny and he could even upset him. I don't think he would but it's not out of possibility.

I just don't like when someone talks bull**** about great fighter who worked hard and deserved to be put over decent contenders. Ortiz doesn't have significant physical advantage and he never fought someone as good as Liston, Wilder included.

He has the right style to frustrate Liston (southpaw stance and good counter punching) but it's not enough to pick him clearly. Nor is his 20 lbs of fat.

 

Ortiz is a good heavyweight ,he isnt a great fighter and he's done nothing to indicate he is.

 

Keep my name out of your mouth you subhuman filth.

 

He's also been out of the ring in over a year. And fought approximately 7 minutes and 14 seconds excluding the first Ali fight since 1961. I'm just throwing things at the wall but I'm guessing you're not going to be quite 100% when you got all that going on.

 

Yes Sonny did find him awkward for a bit but was still fully in charge. But where is the evidence Ortiz is much better than zech? The title Ortiz fought for is not the world title. The level of that title still rests on the logic of chris arreola-stiverne determining world status. It is not. Dave Allen went the distance with Ortiz and he was no better than Zech.

 

Zech wasn't that terrible, he had a record of 32-5 when he fought Liston and he fought the best fighters in the world in his career (Terrel, Mildenzerger and Folley). Yeah, he lost to most of them but let's not act like he was total scrub. Certainly not worse than most of Ortiz opponents.

 

Precisely. Ortiz level is not proven beyond Zech level at all.

 

Most of them? He lost to all of them. (LOL)

Dave Bailey fought a dozen times in the mid 60s and didn't win a fight he competed in for 5 years except one. He stopped Zech in TWO (the year before Liston went freaking seven rounds with Zech because Sonny had a problem with the southpaws - he only fought one - namely Zech). The highlight clip is posted. Look how badly Liston is missing Zech because Zech is simply moving to Sonny's left.

And if Sonny had problems with a bad southpaw like Zech, he'd probably have problems with a very good southpaw like Ortiz. It's only common sense. But there's a severe lack of that in these threads.

You guys are grabbing at straws now.

I stated I thought it would be a pick'em fight and why. If you don't agree, fine.

But I'm tired of arguing with people with blinders on.

 

Watch the available footage, he had no problems

 

I agree and I said that Liston could lose that fight. Ortiz is very good, I wouldn't pick anyone over him with 100% certainity. Liston still proved far more in the ring than Ortiz though, whose goodnes is based more on how he looks than who he beat. He doesn't have any significant win in his pro career.

I like Luis and I hope he'll beat Wilder in the rematch (that would be a great story). He's a well trained and good counter puncher, that's the type of fighter I like the most (Moore and Fitz). He's better than many here want to acknowledge. He's not better than Liston though and Sonny has more ways to beat him though.