Manny Pacquiao or Thomas Hearns- Greater Fighter?

Hearns win over Benitez trumps fighters that Manny beat and Wilfredo would have beaten Margharitto and Manny at 154.

 

Manny was far better against Thurman than Hearns was in his rematch with Ray, Thurman is more highly rated than Ray was in `89 P4P, Ray wasn`t that great after the Hagler fight and was easier to hit v Hearns than Thurman was v Manny.

 

Thurman is not more highly rated the Virgil Hill was at light heavyweight in 1991 though. 2 years later and Hill was undefeated and 10 title defenses and younger and at 175. I thought Manny would beat Thurman off the Lopez fight.

 

I’m not quite sure why you responded to this particular post of mine the way you did because your points seem a little non-sequitur. My posts have been aimed at Reinhardt and what I think is his fairly inconsistent reasoning. Let me explain:
Who’s greater, The Hitman or Pacman?
Reinhardt’s answer - Tommy! Because Manny obviously used steroids. You can’t go from 126 to 147 and get bigger, faster and stronger.
Jack’s reply - Mmmm...that applies to the Motor City Cobra, too. He went from 147 to 190.
Reinhardt - Tommy was tall and rangy. He gained the weight naturally.
Jack - I doubt you know that for sure. Knowing what we know now, steroids began to take hold in professional sports in the 80s and 90s and boxing has never been known for strict drug policies. It’s not too hard to imagine Tommy having used some gear. No problem if you disagree; both fighters are icons and I love them both.
Reinhardt - Manny’s prime was 126 and even there he was decisively outpointed by another great fighter in Erik Morales. How could he go onto knockout welterweights?
Jack - Tommy was a beast at 147 but was knocked out by SRL; how could he go onto knockout light heavyweights?
Jack asks - “Do you think if Manny had his career in Tommy[s era he’d still be dogged by PED allegations? Or if Tommy’s career was in this social media era that he’d be accused of using PEDs?
Reinhardt - ...crickets chirping
John, do you see where I’m coming from here?

John’s reply - Hearns didn’t get knocked out, he was still on his feet. He lost to an ATG in SRL. He wasn’t fully matured at 147 but developed and refined his skills as he got older and filled out. He wasn’t quite as viscious a KO puncher in the higher weights as he was at 147.
John, like Reinhardt, doesn’t answer whether or not if Manny fought in Tommy’s era if he’d still be accused of steroid use, or if Tommy fought in this social media era would he be accused?
Jack - Ok, so Tommy wasn’t put down for a 10 count, but rather was saved by the referee from being KO’d. I’m not sure why you split that hair? And yes, SRL is only behind SRR at 147. My counterpoint to Reinhardt is that both Manny and Tommy lost to other great fighters as they were approaching their primes. And the details provided to support one fighter seem eerily similar to apply to the other.
If only one guy between the two is guilty of doping I’d say Pac. But it wouldn’t surprise me if Thomas did too. Both men are boxing icons, having given their fans and detractors many reasons to celebrate and cry with over 40 years of professional experience between them.

 

I see the point you are making .. but for me it is sort of going down the road of well everyone was using then by you saying "Knowing what we know now, steroids began to take hold in professional sports in the 80s and 90s and boxing has never been known for strict drug policies. It’s not too hard to imagine Tommy having used some gear" . Well if so, then it is a wash because everyone is doing it ...Steroids are also used to speed up the healing process. I think you are focusing to much on the weight gain to point the finger at Tommy …

 

Surf, I do admit that I’m speculating about Tommy using gear, but to my mind it’s not completely baseless. And just to be clear, I absolutely do not buy into the, “they’re all doing it” mentality. I don’t have any cold, hard stats but I assume that the users are a minority, albeit perhaps a significant minority.
As far as focusing on the weight gain? Of course that plays a significant part - how can it not? But it’s not just weight gain; it’s the overall performance. Both Tommy and Manny started off as young skinny men and gained weight as they got older and also developed and refined their strong points. That is typical and not really cause for suspicion. However, where they really begin to separate themselves is in just how much weight they gained all the while fighting and winning at the highest levels after the time when most stop developing.
Like I said before, I really don’t have any stake in whether or not either of them doped or not. I love both guys and I accept that PEDs are part and parcel with sports. Roy, Floyd, Evander, toney, Hopkins, JMM, Mosley, Clenelo, K brothers, Manny etc. All of these men are legit badass HOF fighters who either tested positive, confessed or can be reasonably suspected of doping, and based on Reinhardt’s reasoning Tommy fits into that category.

 

Also, what are your thoughts about the two questions I asked ( I understand they’re hypothetical but I’m still curious as to your and John’s opinions ).
If Manny had fought in Tommy’s generation do you think he’d be accused of using steroids?
If Tommy was fighting in this generation do you think he’d be accused of using steroids?
@JohnThomas1

 

You didn't answer the question.

 

I know where you are coming from, i was replying to the hypothetical more so than your actual stance - a rebuttal.

"Or if Tommy fought in this era, going from getting knocked out at 147 to winning titles and stopping guys at 190, do you think people would accuse him of steroid use?"

 

There's no way steroids were as rife in the game back then as they are now imo. Interesting to see the result of Whyte's test.

Even when he was a Welterweight many were predicting Hearns would fight for and possibly win the light heavyweight title at some point. He was built that way.

But yes Manny probably wouldn't be accused as hard in Tommy's era because again it wasn't as rife imo equaling less scrutiny.

Pac has come an incredibly long way thru the weights. He was Flyweight champ at 20 odd.