Lets settle the did tyson duck foreman debate

Ruddock had a very low punch output. Granted to be fair he may have been a bit better before his win over Dokes.
Otherwise watch his fight with Greg Page he was lucky Page ran out of gas. Page was well past it.
Foreman would put him away just on his experiance. Razor was a good athlete but he didn't really know what he was doing at the world class level. I'm referring to Ring IQ. Understanding what it took to win.
I was a fan of Ruddock and I liked the guy. He was a warrior but he was opposite to George. He never could relax in the ring. That is why he never had the patience to setup his offense.
Foreman by contrast was very relaxed and used his jab and timing with his power shots. In short he was sneaky with hands because he has lost some quickness.
I would bet heavily on Foreman based on ring IQ, strength, chin, better balance and most important he used both hands.

 

LOL@you......

So Ruddock could not do what Glass cannons Stewart/Saverse actually did? Crawford Grimsley rings a bell or maybe that Kraut Killer Schulz ? If Ruddock was such easy pickings how come Foreman never called him for a fight, Razor would have signed in a instant.....

FACT: The only fighters with a pulse he ever met were two small Heavies in Holyfield who never was a big puncher and the other a glass chinned Light Heavy who also had average power at best at Heavy.

More fun facts: Excluding the two fights against the washed up Tyson, Holyfield is 2-5 against Bowe/Lewis/Moorer.....let that sink in...

Moorer is 1-1 with Holy and was laid out by his first defense against Grandpa Foreman.......otherwise Moorer always sucked unless going life and death with Botha and Cooper is a accomplishment.

Conclusion: Stick to Water Polo because combat sport aint your thing.

 

All this emotion because you need Ruddock to be more than what he was. Must go back to a love for Tyson or lust. A female response. I don't emotional about this. I noticed you didn't dispute one thing I said about Razor as a fighter. Cause you can't!
Since your cherry picking Foreman's performances from early in his comeback or all the way to Saverse when he was 47!.LOL you played yourself. You spend effort to disparage Moorer but tell me how many championships did Ruddock win?

All that emotion girl which one got stopped by Dave Jaco? Who got knocked out by Tommy Morrsion? Need a clue? It wasn't George Foreman. Don't ever emotional get about this. I usually let someone else handle my lightwork.
I just analyze a fighter by what I see. Try it.
LOL @ you

 

That was smart managing by Moorer's team. Holyfield did the same thing.

 

One can almost see the spittle flying everywhere as you typed that.

That light punching Holyfield sure had no problems getting Tyson out of there. In the rematch he got out of there as soon as he could after he went all out in the penultimate round (shooting his best wad) and Holyfield didn't fold.

Foreman took those shots and took them like a man, forever hanging in there and looking for that fight changing punch.

 

Again that light punching Holyfield sure got Tyson out of there big time. He was an absolute mess at the end. While Tyson sure wasn't peak he was no-where near washed up either. Lets not even begin to talk about how worn out Holyfield was.

 

If Tyson was washed up, so was the nearly-four-years-older-and-twice-knocked-silly-by-Bowe Holyfield.

 

You guys know that I´m basically never accord with choklab.
But with alot of what he´s saying, I have to agree, as well to some extend what Sauhund is putting into other words.

You´re making comeback Foreman to be something that he wasn´t.
His pinnacle was Holyfield, right? I mean, he really did not win that fight.
For what conclusion does that make him a favourite against Rudduck? You´re telling me Ruddock wouldn´t do better than Foreman against Holyfield? The guy who slugged it out 12 with Tyson?
Gerry Cooney, thats a year before Holyfield, was done as a fighter, and everyone here knows it.

So what is left on what we conclude Comeback-Foremans H2H abilitys? Rodrigues? The less punching Holyfield finished him in 2 as well. After Holyfield? According to most in this thread, as Foreman got older, he did not become better.
So after Holyfield, he fought Stewart, Coetzer and Morrison.

The Stewart fight was razor thin and could go either way, thats no win. He lost to Morrison wide, whatever style you wanted Morrison to be. He won that fight. So George managed to beat Coetzer. Coetzer was beat three months before do an, for that time, overweight Frank Bruno, on the cards, as well as on the chin.

Making Foreman in 90/92 an favorite over Ruddock holds no logic. It really doesn´t. And I´m pretty sure Foreman had no interest in fitghting him after he saw that guy bomb out Smith, Dokes and the huge Rouse.

As others pointed out, Foreman didn´t make a comeback to risk getting punch drunk. Do you think he was that foolish at the age of 40? He came back to make some good money.
He did not fight an unbeaten Stewart, Ruddock or Morrison. These guys showed their vulnerability before. And I´m pretty sure he didn´t have an interest in brawling unbeaten Ruddock, Lewis or Bowe either.

He might have taken a Tyson fight after he lost to Douglas.

After that happened, by his own words (thats his second Latterman interview, of course himself making a show by telling how bad he is): "Would you rather fight him (Tyson) or Holyfield? I think he was a bid braver until Douglas, so he would be more reluctant even too, so it doesn´t matter now."
Explains afterwards, he´ll KO Holyfield in 2... What does it tell? He wasn´t interested in young undefeated strong punchers going to fight it out with him, at least thats what I hear. Or thats what he would like Tyson to fight him, not the young kid rushing for his opponents chin.

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Conclcusion: He might have taken the Tyson fight after Tyson showed vulnerability, but I´m not sure in 89, or after Tyson brawled it out with Ruddock either. For me, he came back to make good money without taking to heavy shots to the chin.

 

Have to say it has been nice to agree with you for once.

 

I think Bonecrusher was a poor mans George Foreman. Smith was a really strong guy, he also traded on brute force and was not very quick. Not many people stopped Bonecrusher Smith. I think Foreman was wise not to fight the guys who did stop Smith. Larry Holmes, Razor Ruddock, Lionel Butler and Brian Nielsen.

Comeback Foreman was a legitimate contender especially after he beat Rodriguez, but his opponent selection was really very clever. He gets a pass because he was so old, but if he really had to take on elite fighters to earn a crack at the title then George never would have been able to fight Holyfield, Morrison or Moorer. Comeback George was very wise and very fortunate.

 

I agree with those that see this a styles thing. That doesn't mean that Tyson would lose, but George was definitely more vulnerable to lateral movement than guys that came to him. Even heavy punchers like Morrison and Briggs wouldn't get head on with Foreman.

I don't think that anyone doubt that Tyson was the better fighter at the time, just that the match-up wasn't good for him style-wise. And I agree with those that think that Old George would be a difficult style for Ruddock, even though that has little bearing on this discussion.

 

Rudduck was a nothing. A nobody. He had one strong punch...that’s it. Those type credentials are not beating George Foreman. Foreman ranks top ten ATG hwt champion. Rudduck was barely able to maintain contender status.

 

Negaitive

I do not have a problem if someone believes young Foreman beats Tyson, I disagree but I could see the reasoning......but Grandpa foreman ? Never, ever.......no 40 year plus fighter will ever defeat prime or almost prime Mike Tyson, it aint gonna happen, Ali, Holmes Bowe Lewis Holyfield WK/VK, it does not matter, period.

Old foreman was slow beyond slow, he could not catch up to Tommy Chin, could not put Stewart away despite putting him down while Stewart stood right in front of him...........the difference in foot/handsp....eed is immense...Tyson would beat him to the punch every single time and combo his lights out..............Foreman would see the incoming but his brain aint sending fast enough signals to his fists to react....it happens to all humans, you get old.......speed kills .

Holyfield used him as a Heavybag for 12...fought a stupid fight trying to KO the Old man...he simply did not have enough fire power to get it done, Holyfiled is a sharp puncher but not a lights out puncher. Foreman wore sunglasses for two weeks straight because he was beaten to a pulp and admitted that if Holy really coul;d punch he would have been in deep trouble......that fight was not even competitive, he pretty much lost every round.

Fact: Foreman struggled every single time he even remotely stepped up.........if Tyson would have fought the same oppsition he would have been crucified by the press..................regarding the press, they saw him as a circus act and after he won his lucky punch belt they did not give him a hard time when he got stripped instead of fighting a live body, afterall , the circus act over achieved by hand picking despite loosing before the perfect opponent with a glass jaw while still getting beat from pillar to post until his lucky 11th hour Hail mary landed.