I think you grossly overstate Frazier's deterioration.Watch him in the 2nd Quarry fight, he looks much the same as he did in their first encounter. Here it is judge for yourself. This content is protected I for one believe Frazier always loses to Foreman and a prime Liston .So does Marciano btw. Frazier had to get inside to work, I don't believe his eye damage made one iota of difference to his effectiveness,he could only fight one way, and at one range. Harry Greb was totally blind in one eye for years he seemed to manage! Sam Langford? John Henry Lewis? To me its total bull**** that one fight ruined him and he was past it at 29. He just met a man who stylistically was a nightmare ,bigger ,stronger, hit harder,marching into such a guys wheel house is fistic suicide and Frazier could only ever fight one way. Frazier aided and abetted this problem by getting complacent , losing some of his dedication, fighting 2 no hopers for 2 years and avoiding his contenders. If he had retired after the FOTC he would not have been seen as unbeatable because his resume was always too thin,and people would always say he got Ali at the right time. Frazier lost the 2nd and 3rd Ali fights because Ali was better relatively speaking than he had been in the FOTC,he had been active fighting ranked fighters and had confidence in his stamina and legs.
To me that is too simplistic. Otherwise every single guy who stood in front of Foreman would have been knocked over as many times as Frazier was. This is untrue. It was not the same “fistic suicide” for Scrap iron Johnson, peralta, Everett Martin, Qawi as it was for Frazier. Being totally fair, Probably the truth is somewhere in the middle. But Joe was hospitalised and the continuation of his career was in serious jeopardy after beating Ali. He might have hurt Ali every round but he took more punches to the head in return forcing himself through exhaustion and pain barriers to do it. And was never the same. There's an account of it here: https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=nYxLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DiQNAAAAIBAJ&pg=7142,3126706 “Rumours had it Frazier would never fight again after the beating he took winning the fight” “Frazier said he hoped the exhibition settled the question of his health”
My opinion of this bout is that Marciano would win in exciting firefight. Coming forward towards Marciano constantly is not a good idea.
Foreman was a 21 years old novice when Peralta a veteran of over 90 fights took him the distance.Foreman won easily. In119 fights Peralta was stopped only 3 times, in his first fight against the excellent ranked Mauro Mina, on a cut eye to Pastrano and by Foreman, in their rematch. Peralta was a cagey defensive fighter the complete antithesis of Frazier! Foreman beat Johnson easily stopping him in7 rds ,George was 21 years old and obviously short of his peak. Johnson twice went the route with Quarry the distance with Ramos and the distance with a 23 years old Joe Frazier! He also went the same 7 rounds with Sonny Liston, so a 21 years old Foreman stopping him is pretty decent ,imo!, Against Martin, Foreman was 40 years old ,You want to say Frazier was severely diminished at 29 but use a 40 years old Foreman's effort in an attempt to prove something here! Martin went the distance with Witherspoon,Hide,Tucker,Holmes,Wlad,Mason [the fight after Foreman,]Moorer,he was a durable guy. Like wise Foreman was 38 when he fought Qawi whom he stopped in7 rds. Foreman fought at a much more leisurely pace in his comeback fights conserving his energy and not gassing out as he has in some of his earlier efforts Qawi was beaten comfortably. Qawi was stopped just twice, by Holyfield a reigning champion, and by Foreman. Your examples are not only absurd, they are blatantly dishonest.
I still want know just why you have changed account names Mac? Please don't deny, it is ****ing obvious.
The FOTC Frazier knocks Rocky down twice (and gets knocked down himself) and wins a unanimous decision (despite Rocky rallying in the late rounds).
So why wasn’t he yo-yo’d inside 2 rounds by the pair of them like Frazier was? You said it was “fistic suicide”. That’s a pretty slow suicide for journeyman isn’t it? Hang on, Foreman was absent for 10 years. You want me to find examples from that time? I selected two opponents or 27 rounds worth of Foremans early career to debunk your “fistic suicide” and added another couple of guys from his comeback when he was still climbing the ranks as a legitimate contender. Nothing absurd about that. It is not dishonest at all. You must be confused about the definition of dishonesty? You are behaving like Im only including Crawford Grimsby and Axel Schulz when George really was at the end of the trail or something.
No, you picked a novice 21 years old Foreman and a comebacking Foreman. 1. Foreman is the only man to stop the heavyweight version of Peralta and one of only 3 men to do so in a total of 119 fights. 2.21 years old Foreman stopped Johnson in 7 rds the same amount of rounds as Sonny Liston Johnson twice went the distance with Quarry and went the 10rds distance with a 23 years old Frazier. 3.Foreman was 40 years old when Martin went the distance with him.Martin went the distance with good punchers like Moorer,Hide,Wlad,Mason. 4.Foreman stopped Qawi in 7rds, Qawi was only stopped twice by George and Holyfield,Foreman was 38 years old. You have no argument,.Bye.
Foreman didn’t fight many people with a pulse before he fought Frazier yet I demonstrated legitimate examples of guys who were not skittled or yo-yo’d in two rounds (like Frazier was) among them. You said it would be “fistic suicide” for anyone. Well it wasn’t. He retired for ten years. Sorry but there were No examples in those 10 years of service to the church. So I don’t know what you want from me. The next available examples count Because he was a legitimate contender in his second career. You can’t rule him out if he was legitimate. He was old but still legitimate. Each time Foreman was a rated fighter, either-side of his ten year retirement, there were mediocre guys making fistic suicide against him without hitting the deck seven times in two rounds.
Lmao Marciano was very clearly a one punch knockout artist in his prime Also what quality opponent did Frazier take out within 5 rounds