Where are people getting this notion that Foreman is the stronger man? Liston is only a few pounds lighter than 70s George with a more massive upper body. Did Liston ever look like the weaker man in the ring during his prime?
Banks wasn't really on Bonevena's level. Joe getting off the canvas and winning at that novice stage of his career was the sign of a future champion. Not a negative in anyway.
Why are people making there conclusions based on how each one did against Ali? That's wrong on like every level. Liston is too strong for Joe, he'd pop his jab at his face over and over again and catch Joe bobbing in with uppercut after uppercut. I have a feeling it would last 3/4 rounds, Liston wasn't as brutal a force as a prime Foreman, but he wasn't far off.
I got no doubts prime liston beats Frazier, old liston still might, his defence and reflexes wernt as sharp but he was still a formidable hard hitting opponent with a sledgehammer jab, I'd still lean towards sonny by k.o.
I agree that prime Liston beats him but Old Liston wouldn't have enough fight in him. Frazier's hook would unravel him and fold him up like a tent. Leotis Martin put him to sleep. Joe would have taken Martin to school.
That's not how it works. It's all about the styles. Martin and Frazier fought nothing alike. Martin stayed away from Liston until he tired. Hardly Frazier's style.
I never said he wasn’t past it swaggy , I said Sonny was on a win streak. Are you saying he wasn’t on a win streak? Can you dispute Sonny had a deservedly high rating at that time?
Liston was in his 40's when he lost to Martin .Frazier was just 29 when Ali busted him up, and he looked as good as ever in his second fight with Quarry.Frazier had limitations and to ignore/excuse them fans play up his physical condition after FOTC with gross exaggerations.
Louis was on a 8 fight win streak when he lost to Marciano. He couldn't have been to bad right? Similarly Ali was on a 14 fight when streak not having lost in half a decade when Spinks beat him. Using your logic wouldn't that mean they weren't far from their best? Of course not because it doesn't suit your agenda to undermine Liston.