Rocky Marciano vs Sonny Liston

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Lack Of Foes Sends Williams Against Liston

MIAMI BEACH, Fla. (AP)-- To hear Lou Vieusi tell it, nobody among the heavyweights will fight Cleveland Williams or Charles (Sonny) Liston, so they will fight each other here Wednesday night.- The Hartford Courant April 15th 1959

 

Except that Liston fought Mike DeJohn, Nino Valdes, Roy Harris, Zora Folley, and Eddie Machen in 1959 and 1960. Top men were willing to get into the ring with him.

Williams did not get these fights. I see no reason that Williams would have been considered more dangerous than Liston.

I did not say or imply that Williams was illegitimate as a contender. He deserved his top five ratings. But I did question if all the contenders were afraid of him. Certainly the ones who did get in the ring with him, Liston, Terrell, and Machen, did all right on the whole. He drew Machen, but Ingo ko'd Eddie and Folley and Johnson decisioned him. The second Terrell fight was very close (I saw it on TV, by the way). I suppose that Williams might have been given a draw or perhaps a split win, but the fight was tight enough to have gone either way.

 

Yep.

 

Smaller guys who did not freeze did okay with Liston. They did not win but they did okay. This at least gives Rocky a chance. He won't freeze.

Liston could potentially be a harder fight than anything marciano got in real life but the same can also be said for Sonny. Did Sonny beat one guy who would be favored over Marciano?

I would give the same Charles and Walcott that Rocky beat a realistic chance versus Sonny. Why not?

Liston still deserves to start favorite but I think Rocky is a seriously live underdog worth betting on.

 

There is a film on YouTube of Blackburn measing Louis's height and reach. He stood 6'1" in boxing shoes.

 

No they didn't. They didn't do better than anyone else. Just ask Albert Westphal.

 

Right so, this is gonna be mental... bump.

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Sonny Liston was a man who's left hand is in the discussion of the best in HW history, he was physically one of the strongest men to ever box and had very good whiskers. He was a real ******* to outbox as well.

Rocky Marciano was a man, who never knew what it was like to be defeated and in theory had no limits, he packed a helluva punch, had a sturdy chin, balls of steel and defined relentlessness, quit wasn't a word in Rocky's dictionary.

Rocky would walk towards Liston, negating Listons biggest Weakness, in his lack of footwork. Liston would be jabbing Marciano and staying in the centre of the ring where some explosive exchanges would take place. Marciano would throw some of his Suzie Qs and be countered with a stiff jab to the face, he'd mix it up with a Gazzele punch or 2 but Liston's right hand would be there to keep him somewhat safe from them.

However Liston wasn't perfect and so wouldn't always have his right hand to cover his chin, Rocky would land home with a huge punch with full leverage. He'd hurt Liston with it and possibly drop him.

Rocky Marciano's defence was poor, don't try and tell me otherwise. It was poor, for an ATG. He would be more than open, he would be walking into Liston's power pumping Jab that would cut through Rocky's face like wet paper mache, he'd be lining up his right hand and Rocky would walk into it, Rocky had a good set of whiskers but this was Walcott or Moore hitting him, this would be a prime Sonny Liston and I don't think he could take it. Not to mention his own punches would be somewhat ineffective due to how stellar Listons jab was and how long his arms were.

Should this become and inside fight, and given the way these two would exchange it would at some point, Rocky would have a decided advantage, due to his arms being like a Dinosaur. He'd be landing some very hard punches and Liston would most likely hit the canvas, but Liston would also be able to land his uppercuts and hooks inside as well. This would do damage to any heavyweight ever. Liston could also smother Rocky in a clinch and just hold him there, Rocky wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

In all honesty I see Liston overpowering and outmuscling Marciano early in a fire fight that sees both men hurt or down, but Liston clearly less damaged of the two. Liston's face would be swollen and puffy, Marciano's face would be bruised, cut to ribbons, swollen and his nose would be a mess. Marciano would fight to the death if he meant he'd win, Liston would have to beat him near there to get a stoppage, but I think he would.

Liston TKO4

 

Marciano was deceptively hard to hit cleanly. You can see sharpshooters like Walcott and Charles looking to counter Marciano constantly but more often than not Rocky was not there to be hit. He was always parrying, bobbing and weaving, following through with punches and ducking away from counters.

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He wasn't hard to hit with the jab. an old Louis had no trouble landing it and busting up his face. Walcott said he wasn't hard to hit ,but hard to hit with a bigshot. Liston can win this whichever way it goes,he can out box Rocky jabbing his face into a gory mess,or he can outslug him.Marciano was cut in all his big fights ,Liston's jab would rip his face to shreds and he would contain him close up too.
Marciano has no advantages here.

 

One thing I’d like to mention, a prime Marciano’s work rate was insane, he threw a lot of extremely hard punches and kept the pressure on the whole fight, I think it comes down to how long the fight lasts, I think if rocky makes it past 6 the fight is his, Liston will start to fold and the rock will keep coming

 

Workrate is often determined by the abilities and physical condition of the opponent. Stiff ham and eggers who can't counter well, or lack the intuition for windows or the fast twitch to realize those opportunities, have a hard time turning someone's work rate against them. Likewise, old men prefer to take breaks and stall. They need to conceal their disadvantages. They tend to tire in latter rounds. The wheels come off.

 

Or older guys nearer 40 that 30.

 

Or nearer 140 to 130 in Ortiz's case

 

Lol!

 

Sonny Liston blasts Marciano out inside 5. Their styles just clash , there's no way this fight can go very long. Rocky will be coming forward into the hardest jab in heavyweight history, Sonny will straighten up Rocky then back him up, I see Marciano getting dropped a few times before the end