I've left out the big 3, so no Armstrong, Leonard or Duran. Then the generally perceived winner of this will go in a round robin with them in a separate thread. The Contestants Alexis Arguello (Mancini fight) Manny Pacquiao (Diaz fight) Julio Cesar Chavez (Rosario fight) Floyd Mayweather Jr (2nd Castillo fight) Packey McFarland (Welsh fight) Tony Canzoneri (Chocolate fight) Ike Williams (2nd Montgomery fight) Joe Gans (1st Nelson fight) Terry McGovern (Gans fight) Pernell Whitaker (2nd Ramirez fight) Edwin Rosario (1st Ramirez fight) Vasyl Lomachenko (Crolla fight) Bob Montgomery (1st Williams fight) Ray Mancini (Arguello fight) Battling Nelson (2nd Gans fight) Carlos Ortiz (Ramos fight) Rules The rules are the same as the other one. Old school ref, grappling, pulling and thumbing allowed Near dead to be stopped Neutral Corner after a KD 18.5*18.5 ring 15 rounds The fights go Arguello vs Ortiz (1) Pacquiao vs Nelson (2) Chavez vs Mancini (3) Mayweather vs Montgomery (4) McFarland vs Lomachenko (5) Rosario vs Canzoneri (6) Williams vs Whitaker (7) McGovern vs Gans (8) Then the winners of each fight face eachother 1 vs 8 (1) 2 vs 7 (2) 3 vs 6 (3) 4 vs 5 (4) Then the winners of them do the same 1 vs 4 2 vs 3 Then who ever you've got left in the final Who you got winning?
Why Mcgovern? He was a natural Bantam, it was his best weight. McGovern vs Gans already happened. Still, I'll have a response later.
Tbh I was torn between him and Camacho but I rank the Gans win over any Camacho has. And I didn't know he was a natural BW. And I don't think it was a fix. So he's the one I went with
Round 1 Ortiz vs Arguello - A cracking bout. The exceptionally well rounded master would figure out and find his way around Arguello's methodical footwork. Arguello has plenty of moments with his tight punching combinations, combined with Ortiz mixing it up close. A classic bout with two consummate 15 rounders. Ortiz UD. Pacquaio vs Nelon - Another firefight. Pacquaio would frequently find Nelson with his combinations and movement. Nelson would always be in the bout, due to his durability and heart, and gives Pac some scares, alongside a tough ref. 15 rounds favors Pacquaio more than Nelson IMO, who benefited with extreme distances. Pacquaio UD Chavez vs Mancini - A war whilst it lasts, but Chavez is a different level. Ray leaves out on his shield stunningly, but Chavez was better in every department. Chavez stoppage. Mayweather vs Montgomery - A bad style match-up for Floyd from the forgotten Bobcat. his swarming, free wheeling style and extreme speed would bother Floyd throughout the bout. Though he would have his moments countering Bobcat, his frantic offense would be too much, as it was too much for greater fighters like Ike, and the Castillo performance doesn't inspire confidence against the Bobcat. Bbobcat would also have an advantage with the ref and round length. Montgomery UD McFarland vs Lomachenko - The most intriguing match up, master of the past vs master of the present. The length and ref really help out McFarland, against Loma who is not a great inside fighter. This is definitely a battle of the minds. McFarland was bigger, but Loma has a style McFarland wouldn't necessarily be prepared for (closest comparison is Freddie Welsh). The leads from both men would be constant, probing and stabbing, showing great technical prowess between the classical and modern styles.McFarland would be able to set up his inside offense and change momentum with his tricks, but ultimately it is not enough for me to pick him. Loma SD Rosario vs Canzoneri - An amazing exhibition of Canzoneri's boxing skills against a tough opponent. Canzoneri, who was only ever stopped once past his peak by a murderous puncher, battled and dominated the likes of Kid Berg, Kid Chocolate and Jimmy McClarnin. Rosario offers nothing Canzi hasn't seen before, and the power would not be a saving grace either, whilst Canzoneri's excellent defensive radar, odd style and underrated punching takes it toll on Rosario, and shells him up. Canzoneri UD, possible late stoppage. Williams vs Whitaker - A very interesting match up. Ike, who was an artistic technician in his own right, would be befuddled by Whitaker as they begin to engage. What Whitaker doesn't have, however, is murderous power, and Ike has the skill yo land it, especially over 15 and with a lenient ref. Ike's venomous straight right would eventually be kryptonite for Pernell. Ike KO McGovern vs Gans - This bout occurred for real, however I regard it (from the footage I have seen) as a fix. Despite McGoverns greatness, he is a bit out of his depth here, at his third weight against one of the top 3 ever. Gans would land punishing shots after a rough start, where he eventually figures out McGovern and utilizes his advantages in length and IQ. Gans KO
Flea rates McGovern as the N02 batam ever, and regularly fought in this weight range (or lower) at his peak. He is also an ATG Feather.
Round 2 Ortiz vs Gans - Another technically salivating match up. The battle of leads and positioning would be tremendous, and the inside fighting would be punishing as they jockey for position. I give Ortiz a slight advantage on the outside, and Gans the advantage on the inside. I think this is the bout most influenced by the rule-set, ultimately favoring the experience of the Puerto Rican, in a bout that would age both men. Ortiz SD Pacquaio vs Willams - A war for the ages. Thermopylae in the ring. Both men would give and take brutality artistically. Pac would have an advantage with his blistering start, but slowly Ike would work in his potent jab and his destructive right hand, whilst eating shots. Ultimately, Ike lands a right to completely change the momentum from Pac, who is up on the scores. Ike KO. Chavez vs Canzoneri - Similar to the Rosario bout, only much, much harder. Canzoneri better show up at his best here, or he could lose a decision ala Kid Berg. This bout would include some fierce exchanges and sweet technique. Ultimately, Chavez's style would be too plain for Tony, and his slower feet would lead to frustration as Canzoneri masterfully moves and counters. Canzoneri UD. Montgomery vs Lomachenko - Bad style match up for Loma. This would be like Salido x100. Loma's southpaw technique would be negated by the fierce, speedy onslaught of Bobcat, who would have no regard for Loma's power. Make no mistake though, Loma would be in there, and Bobcat better be at his best. The referee and length also favour the wild Bobcat, and slowly slow Loma's momentum. Mongomery UD, possible late stoppage.
Round 3 Ortiz vs Montgomery - A very tricky one for me to decide. Ortiz, unlike the other opponents, would be prepared for Bobcat's rushes due to his skills. However, he would still be massively troubled, and Montgomery would give as much as he got. Ortiz's unique blend of technical mastery and roughhouse iside skills wouild mean he could consistently keep up with Bobcat, and ultimately land leads and counters down the stretch as Bobcat got sloppy. This bout would be bitterly contested, and Ortiz would have to be at his best to win. Ortiz SD. Ike Williams vs Tony Canzoneri - A battle of two truly All Time Great fighters. Unlike Chavez, Ike has the skill, poise, length, offensive skill and power in a unique blend to keep Canzoneri honest. Tony has his truly superb moments, but Ike would be just that one step ahead of the barrel chested Canzoneri. Would be similar to the second Ross bout, but more convincing for Ike. Ike UD.
Round 4 Ike Williams vs Carlos Ortiz A battle between two forgotten, legendary lightweight kings. A fitting final. Both men possessed physical advantages at the weight. Both men had high levels of skill. Both men had courageous hearts. Ortiz triumphs Ike in skill, but he's right there in the mix, and balances it out with bone cracking power. Both men would start cautiously, and a battle of leads would ensue, which Ortiz would lead in slightly. The fight would then frequently interchange from inside exchanges and mid range posturing, in which Ortiz wins the exchanges, but at a much higher cost physically. The exchange of jabs would be venomous, and Ike's power would eventually start to rattle the master. It is here Ike starts to land his piston right, which slowly accumulates into the later rounds. Both men exchange later in the bout as they become laborious, when Ike suddenly lands a crushing right, and sends Carlos to the canvas! Carlos bravely gets up, but is obviously affected, and Ike pours down a salvo of savage shots to stop the Peurto Rican legend, who is up on the scores. Verdict: Ike Williams KO. Tournament Winner: Ike Willams!
Round 1 Arguello vs Ortiz Holy **** what a great fight. I think Ortiz would taste some hellfire right hands but manage to keep the fight how he likes it and box beautifully. He'd manage to land jabs and move around Arguello's footwork. I think he'd win the less entertaining rounds based on skill. However Arguello's counterpunching would win him rounds and keep it relatively close, but still a clear win for Ortiz. Ortiz UD15 Pacquiao vs Nelson Pacquiao wins on landing more punches, he'd land his left over and over again. His right hand would be pulling Nelson's hands down and going to the body whilst landing loads of jabs. He's just too ****ing fast for Nelson imo. But Nelson granite chin would keep him there all night long. Pacquiao's Stamina is good enough imo to go 15 and even if it isn't his chins good enough to last 3 rounds against a badly beaten Nelson. Pacquiao UD15 Chavez vs Mancini A brutal war that doesn't last long, Chavez beats Mancini down whilst Mancini fights back bravely. He had much heart but in this fight, heart would get Ugly and have him badly beaten black and blue after a good few rounds of exchanges he'd have taken to much damage to have a chance of winning. I think he'd have been combo punched out of the ring Chavez TKO7 Mayweather vs Montgomery Mayweather is too slick for the Bobcat imo, I think this would start to resemble Gatti vs Mayweather in the end, although it would last longer. Pretty Boy Floyd was a very fast and explosive fighter, at his best he'd stick it on Montgomery imo and move away from him and his pressure. Mayweather TKO8 McFarland vs Lomachenko This is a purists wet dream, there would be so mush adjustments and subtle footwork with feints it would be beautiful. The infighter of old would have some serious help from the referee and length of the bout, I think he'd win rounds inside based on him being able to actually time Lomachenko's punches and block them as well, but I think Lomachenko's aggressive fighting style wins it him imo, he'd step out and cover McFarland and land good punches, scoring punches. He'd be taking more leather than he's used to as well. I think McFarland would do well but would lose a split decision on activity. Lomachenko SD15 Rosario vs Canzoneri Tony outboxes Edwin pretty easily imo, he doesn't bring anything to the table a prime Canzoneri couldn't deal with. Not to mention he could bang himself. Rosario had a very good chin but it would only take a matter of time imo, I like Canzoneri to put on a clinic, then a beatdown and then a brutal KO. Canzoneri KO14 Williams vs Whitaker Whitaker would take the lead imo on speed and Defence and would take the early to mid rounds quite easily. He'd be slipping Ike's jab and flicking his solid left in his face whilst popping his own jab from the offset. He'd eventually start to get tagged with some dynamite rights and is probably dropped. I think Ike's power would catch up to Pea, especially to the body, and would slow him down enough for Ike to finish him off. I'd take a Whitaker UD over 12. Williams TKO14 McGovern vs Gans Ha know what happened there lol McGovern KO2
Round 2 Manuel Ortiz vs Terry McGovern Imo Terry's out of his depth here. I like Ortiz to nullify his offence and counter, cutting up his face and outboxing him. Adding insult to injury on the smaller man I think it may get stopped on cuts but that's an intangible I can't predict so I'll say he lasts the distance in a one sided affair Ortiz UD15 Ike Williams vs Manny Pacquiao This would be a brawl, but with Pacquiao darting in and exploding whilst being open to a right hand I think Ike catches him and finishes him brutally. Pacquiao would land some heavy leather of his own and might knock Ike down but Ike would still get him imo. Toxic style for Pacquiao. Ike Williams KO8 Canzoneri vs Chavez Absolutely brutal fight but I think Chavez's walk forward aggression takes it for him, he'd take Canzoneri's power imo and cut the ring to beat Tony up along the ropes, I'd say that Canzoneri survives any beatdown given to him but to come back and win? Against Chavez? I think Not. Chavez UD15 Lomachenko vs Mayweather Mayweather lands lots of everything on Loma and takes the rounds, Loma would adjust, then PBF would readjust but in the end Mayweather not taking as many punches as Vasyl was would win him the fight. No stoppage here tho. Mayweather UD15
Round 3 Ortiz vs Williams The battle of the jabs would cause Ortiz to build up points, but it gives Williams a chance to time it and land his right hand. He'd constantly be doing this going past 5 rounds imo and whilst a tactical mastermind like Ortiz would readjust he'd still being caught clean, I like Williams to keep landing till he gets the stoppage. Williams TKO12 Chavez vs Mayweather Chavez's walk forward pressure combined with his power and chin has him stopping Mayweather, who was too agressive for his own good at LW. He'd get timed with one of his crosses, caught, hurt and then bulled back to the ropes where Chavez would hurt him up stairs and down stairs. Rinse and Repeat. Until he either stops him or takes a UD. But over 15 I'd take a late stoppage for Chavez Chavez TKO14
Final Chavez vs William's I like Chavez to take Williams punches and throw back with somewhat equal force and effect. Whilst this fight would be in the centre of the ring I like Ike to win the rounds with his 1-2 but Chavez coming forward would force Ike back to the ropes where Chavez would be landing some heavy leather and smothering Ike's own offence. Ike's power and skill would have Chavez hurt multiple times and probably down as well, he'd try and follow up but would be met with a clinch, infighting and more resilience than he'd have ever encountered before. I like Chavez to land some catastrophic body shots throughout the fight that slow Ike down long enough to be caught with brutal punches later on in the bout and would follow up with fight ending Intentions. Ike would fight back and make some incredible exchanges that are incredibly entertaining but ultimately have one winner. The winner of the LW ATG fight and the inductee to the next Tourney. Chavez TKO11
Rough, I was amazed reviewing your picks because I had the exact same picks all the way up to Ike and Canzoneri. I had picked Tony on a sliver of a decision and then in the final Ortiz beating Tony also by decision.
