Max Schmeling vs these two

It's not silly at all to point out that a fighter's reputation and performance in head-to-head matchups have become exaggerated based on his performance in one particular, unrepresentative fight. I don't see anything wrong with discussing the other hypotheticals you mentioned either. None of them are great analogies though. Duran in particular seems like a strange choice, since he's clearly an ATG without the Leonard fight. And Frazier too was considered a dominant champion before he ever stepped into the ring with Ali. Bowe was unproven but regarded as a young phenom with potentially unlimited upside.

Schmeling was none of those things. He won the belt on a foul in a fight where he hadn't won a single round, and he was considered to be a very ordinary champion, who just happened to be slightly better than the rest of a mediocre lot of heavyweights, throughout his reign. Just about all of his top opponents beat him at least once and he lost to guys who weren’t world beaters. His best wins were over guys who were either still very young or clearly past prime. Nobody gave him any chance at all against Louis because nobody considered him to be a particularly impressive fighter. Even after the Louis fight, it seems that most smart writers saw that as revealing some of Louis' limitations more so than a testament to Schmeling's greatness. He was a guy with good power and counter-punching skills but he was otherwise known as a one-punch fighter without any compelling physical gifts. Nobody spoke of him as some kind of ring genius/master boxer. His legend didn't really seem to grow until his actual career other than the Louis fight had mostly faded from memory.

And now, despite all that, and even though he would have been the size of a big light-heavy/small cruiser, some people think it's a given that he beats guys like Usyk and Luis Ortiz, etc. It's misguided revisionism imo.

 

I think Evander beats him, Max has a pretty even chance with Archie imo,Moore's chin could be dented.

 

I agree but Duran`s career would have been far more impessive than Bowe`s if you take away the Leonard and Holy wins respectively, Duran beat DeJesus, nobody on Bowe`s resume was even near that level besides Holy, same applies to Palomino, plus he fought well when badly outreached by one of the greatest middles of all time and moving up from lightweight to win a middleweight title against a big puncher beats Bowe`s other wins also.

 

The punches Max landed on Louis would have landed on Holy, Louis was a far better defensive fighter than `Vander who admitted he had trouble evading straighht shots as oppossed to shots that came around, like Tyson`s wide hooks.

 

Holyfield had a better chin than Louis imo.

 

Bowe didn`t fight that well before beating Holy, he laboured v Cortzer and was derided for that performance where he looked really sluggish, Frazier`s win over Ali added eons to his resume and legacy, it was by far his biggest test up to that point, while Duran had a lot of big names on his resume if you take away Ray`s name.

 

Yes he did.

 

It would be an impressive career, but the Leonard win is much better than beating Holyfield IMO, and it's easily his best win.

 

I'll take Max over Moore
Undecided about Holy. If it's a clean Holy I will lean ever so slightly towards Max

 

CW Holy and Max had the exact same prime fight weight. Thats why I opened two analog threads about them. For a mystic reason, one of them bulked up 20+ pounds to compete in the open weight devision and the other 189 guy is a so called genuine HW. He wasn´t. Also Louis didn´t beat many by modern standard. Plus there is some truth about the bum of the month club quality regarding Louis devision, what brings another light in therms of quality of Baer, Schmeling and Sharkey.
Max wouldn´t make it in a modern HW devision. We are talking about a fighter who had a serious rumble against MW Walker. Guys like Norton, Witherspoon, Tubbs, Williams, 205 Spinks, Mercer, McCall, Bruno etc. would batter him.

The CW Holy vs Schmeling discussion is totally legit. That said, it would be a very good bout!

 

I could see a mature Holyfield beating a green Louis, definitely. Moore too, actually.

 

Moore had longievity,but failed EVERY time vs the best Marciano,Ali, Patterson all KOD him hahahahahaha.Max vs .I have to laugh these guys say Moore would dominate ko Max. THE later posters had a little boxing knowledge Archis vDOWN AND OUT.Holy would be a toss upMax would be another Max vs Toy bulldog

 

I disagree—he had so much success against Louis because he exploited a glaring technical flaw and Louis proved completely unable to adapt. And I think Holyfield would have landed way more punches on Schmeling than Louis did. He would have been far more active and quicker on his feet, and fought in style nothing like the tentative, subdued manner in which young Louis fought Schmeling.

 

Both fights would be amazing to watch. Tough to decide, but Schmeling vs Moore is one of my all-time favorite fantasy fights.

 

He landed on Sharkey, Stribling and Walker even though they didn't have the same technical flaw.

Holyfield was a great fighter but he was more than hittable. It would be a war, both guts had good but not unbreakable chins and very good but not ATG punching power. Schmeling is better defensively but Evander is more active. Great matchup and definitely closer than some like to admit.