Why is the board idiot rambling on about subjects he has no understanding of? If you can read, doubtful, Mendoza posted that Flynn may have beaten Johnson had the fight not been stopped. Certainly a broad understanding of eye witness testimony does not bare this out as factual. Cherry picking is only for those trying to shape history as they like to have had seen it unfold, not for its true understanding.
Well Mcvey, its in the archives here. You can look for it. The color line isn't clear cut. As Champion Jeffries fought Griffin, the man who beat Johnson and he was black. Had he lost Griffin is the new lineal champion. The thing is, Jeffries pretty much fought the best as Champion, Johnson avoided the best, and struggled at times with lesser men. As soon as Johnson defeat Burns he too drew the color line. Jeannette accused Johnson of drawing the color line against his own people.
Is that some sort of requirement? LOL. When he was writing the book, I asked him a few questions on where he was researching and he wasn't trying to uncover anything new or go into much of the fighter's personal information. That diminished my interest on the book. There's several Jeffries books out there, I'd recommend Two-fisted Jeff written in 1929 when there were still people living familiar with him and Jeffries was there to be interviewed. If your writing book 100 years after a person is gone, you're just going to miss out in the interviews, testimonials, oral stories and such. The writer creates his own research, which is limited to what he reads. I have heard Pollack speak on Sullivan and Johnson. He's quick to point out excuses. He's a decent speaker, but also one who represents one side while under-representing the other. Well okay he's a laywer, ( And a very liberal one for politics ) that's how most of them operate. I get it. Klompton once destroyed him on the Man Act He seldom posts here. That's too bad. Last I heard he tried to get wife / girl friend into boxing and the results were near tragic. I think he has soured on posting about boxing.
LOL Adam is back, and posted just before I did. Welcome back. So he can answer the question for Mcvey if he cares to do so.
I have exposed your idiocy with such regularity you can set your watch to it. But... Here, like a broken watch twice a day, you are correct. Mendoza has been pushing such lunacy for over a decade on this board. He has a pathological dislike of Johnson. Most of us have become desensitized to it and merely ignore it.
The only thing you are able to expose is your own severe shortcomings. I wonder if your life is as decrepit as your ability to comprehend the sport of boxing? I’d say so.
Jeffries WOULD NEVER have fought Johnson as a proper defense of his title. The boxing world and a significant portion of the boxing public was totally against the idea of a black hwt contender being given the opportunity to win the worlds hwt championship (hence the color line). It’s not a question of Jeffries being physically AFRAID to battle Johnson or any man for that matter. It’s instead a question of allowing a black hwt to claim a title, should he win, which indicates they were the physical master of ALL white men. Jeffries if anything was afraid of the potential ramifications of letting down the entire white race should he lose. Fleischer wrote in “50 years at ringside” that the real reason Jeffries retired was the rise to the top of Johnson, Jeanette, McVey and Langford. I often wondered what exactly he meant by this comment. Reading his other writings points you in the right direction. That is a growing interest in making these bouts while at the same time the “old guard” sternly warning Jeffries (as they warned Burns a few years later) NOT to make these bouts happen. Jeff was forced to retire due to these opposing pressures.
How do we know? Jeffries said he'd fight Hart if there was demand for it. There wasn't much. He also was talking about a come back to a few years later. If Hart was black, I assure you some would blast Jeffries for not fighting him in modern times. The reason Jeffries retires is he lost money in the Munroe fight, and there were no other big draws. If there was a 1910 Reno like a purse, who knows if Jeffries would have given Johnson a title shot Now for the facts: When Jeffries retired, Mcvey was out of the game ( Mcvey retired after losing to Martin in 1904 ) and did not fight all of 1905, Langford vs small with his manager advertising he'd fight any man but Jeffries, and Jeannette a complete no name with an 0-4 start. There is no way Jeffries was remotely worried about these guys in 1905 or 1906. Be careful when quoting Nat Fleischer. Those who research dates and times know better.
You don’t know what you are talking about. Fleischer KNEW Jeffries personally. That’s perhaps 40 years of one on one information. All you have are records to look at. Reread what I wrote. It’s 100% correct. Jeffries retired as he knew he would have pressure to fight a leading black contender and even more pressure not to. He was not “afraid” of the black contenders. He was afraid of a no win situation. Period.
You're being stupid. I told you with fact that the names you mentioned aside from Johnson were not close to a title shot. Are you trying to telll me there were in 1905 when he retired? One was a short man under 160 pounds, one out of boxing and the other off to an 0-4 start. Once Hart beat Johnson, Jeffries didn't have to fight him. His next match as Hart if he wanted it. As I told you Jeffries had other fights out there to take. The money wasn't high enough. The color line was pretty much kept until Braddock, and Louis himself only gave two black men title shots, one likely beat him, the other had vision problems and Louis gave him a title shot as a favor. Maricano likely ended the color line at heavyweights.
The only stupid one is you. Ignorance of history specifically how history unfolds. Jeffries saw the rising tide of black hwts. It did not matter whether some of these fighters were not yet AT the top. He knew they were coming and he already had Johnson there in wait. Again for the mentally challenged it’s not a question of Jeffries being afraid of anyone. I am sure he was totally unafraid of anyone in the ring. He was in a no win situation. If he fought any true black contender he would be skinned alive by the powers who controlled boxing as well as most of the lay population. This would be for even giving the contender A CHANCE to win the championship. If he kept refusing to give a top ranked black challenger a title shot he knew there was a growing population of sports writers and the boxing public that would keep beating their drum. Jeffries saw a no win political situation. He was damned if he did and damned if he did not. THIS prompted his retirement in 1905.
Show me this quote from Jeffries. It does not exist. Nat if you do research has numerous errors. I told you Jeffries fought Griffin in 1901, who was black in a 4 round match so what you are saying ( no win situation ) saying it laughable. If that was the case, he would have never fought Griffin as champion. Please think about it what you are saying. Also Nat was born in Nov of 1897. He was 7 years old when Jeffries retired. No more time will I waste with you in this thread. Have fun with Seamus.
Again your ability to comprehend is seriously impinged. The “bout” with Griffin was a four round exhibition. Griffin was trying to win $100 by lasting the four round distance with Jeffries. It was not a serious bout and Griffin was there to survive, not win. It does not matter how old Fleischer was in 1905! How old were you? It does matter that Fleischer was personal friends with Jeffries and knew this history intimately. Study up the history of the time. Your knowledge is sorely lacking.