Your larry holmes v tim witherspoon scorecard ?

Cant remwmber the score but i scored Holmes winning

 

@mrkoolkevin FOTW material? Close enough to be controversial and exciting too.

 

I have to address this, yes folks I made a very dumb mistake of not including Joe.

 

Angelo was being even more obnoxious than usual. He was so obviously biased against Larry...jealousy.

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Perhaps because they were the rules of the governing body of whose title he held.

The guy who solidly beat Page (Berbick) was later solidly beaten by Snipes (who had heavily dropped Holmes) and Snipes was then solidly beaten by Page in an eliminator to fight Holmes. So Page had solidly beaten the guy (Snipes) who had solidly beaten the guy who beat Page (Berbick). If Page lost to Berbick and Snipes beat Berbick why would there be a need for Snipes to fight Page per your reasoning? Snipes beating Page is a foregone conclusion right? Same as Ali - Foreman. George had already decimated a guy that had soundly beaten Ali and given him hell in a return and he'd brutalized Norton as well who had just split a pair of difficult fights with Ali.

The a,b,c triangle theory never works. Weaver had already been beaten by a guy Holmes whupped so why bother to fight Weaver? Zanon had already been beaten by a guy Larry beat as well. Same with Cobb, Rodriguez. Frank had drawn with Snipes who Larry had beaten. Right after the Page incident Holmes was slated to fight Coetzee who had already been knocked out by Weaver and beaten by Snipes (in a robbery).

Your reasoning doesn't stand up at all. With that stance there'd be a lot less good fights and we'd miss some absolute superfights.

 

You're reasoning is more than sound, but I meant Bey beat Page (forgive me, I'd forgotten about Berbick).

Can anyone imagine a guy who got beat by Trevor Berbick and David Bey beating Larry Holmes? It's not a fight I'd have paid for. But that's just me, I could be talking out my sphincter, if so....


uh, correct my sphincter? (laughing like a loon).

No disrespect @JohnThomas1 , and I can't argue with your post.

 

Ok you misunderstood the events and timeline Saad was talking about then.

The thing is if we didn't bother with fights where one guy was expected to win boxing would basically cease to exist. We also wouldn't have results like Tyson - Douglas and the thousands of other upsets thru history. We also wouldn't have Holmes - Spinks as Holmes was a 6-1 favorite and next to nobody thought Spinks could possibly win. Holmes - Page actually opened at a competitive 8-5 in betting lines when it was announced. Most were of the opinion the witherspoon battle showed Holmes to be on the decline and possibly ready to be taken.

Holmes defended against far far lesser fighters than Page, they all did at times of course. Post Berbick saw Page belt out contender James Tillis and comfortably decision the ring rated #4 in Snipes.

No disrespect to you either, i appreciate the way you conduct yourself mate.

 

One could opine that both the Rodriquez and Witherspoon fights were the ones that first indicated Larry's decline (I don't count the Snipes fight, he didn't see the punch coming and was so incredible both before and after the knockdown). To me Larry was prime right up to and including the Cobb fight (I can't see anyone during that time beating the man who so dazzlingly dominated Cobb, a quite rightfully ranked contender).

I still feel the Witherspoon fight was right up there with the Norton in terms of being most obvious examples of the greatness of Larry Holmes.

Interesting to me how Witherspoon at first accepted the loss (even to Holmes' face after the bout), but then took both Larry's self-anger as well as the crowd reaction to mean he won the fight. Holmes was obviously just really disappointed and heated with himself (you can see that same look in any of his tough fights back then), so Tim kind of went off the handle with the interview.

Still, up to that time no one doubted Larry's position as top heavyweight (I was around back then btw), and even after it happened it was generally agreed (by the boxing people I knew at least) that Larry underestimated Tim the way Ali did Spinks...we also were confident that Larry ultimately won that fight.

One of the down sides of the Holmes fight is that we ended up with another guy who won a "title" (I'm not even going to bother calling Tim a two-time champion...just watch that Tubbs fight, anyone see a champion there?)….I actually give more credence to Weaver's reign and skill as a fighter in general.

Page was stoppable...to me even at his peak Page would have been stopped by Larry. He just didn't have enough consistency in his fight career for me to think otherwise. Same with Dokes, Coetzee, Thomas.

All this is just my opinion, of course.

 

Tim by a point. A draw would have been fair, too.

 

1. Holmes
2. Witherspoon
3. Witherspoon
4. Holmes
5. Holmes
6. Holmes
7. Witherspoon
8. Holmes
9. Witherspoon (10-8)
10. Holmes
11. Holmes
12. Holmes

115-112 for Holmes.

Not at his best, but Holmes showed a lot of great qualities, very impressive fight.

 

I don't watch much HW anymore, but I'm down for it in the next FOTF if anybody's interested

 

Watched it again:

1. Holmes 10-9
2. Witherspoon 10-9
3. Holmes 10-9
4. Holmes 10-9
5. Holmes 10-9
6. Witherspoon 10-9
7. Witherspoon 10-9
8. Holmes 10-9
9. Witherspoon (10-8)
10. Holmes 10-9
11. Holmes 10-9
12. Holmes 10-9

115-112 for Holmes.

For awhile I had score the 12th a draw, but it seems obvious to me Tim was just doing some more misguided clowning than effective fighting after the 9th round.

Tim kind of gave it away, probably due to his inexperience.

 

His dancing was awful.

 

I feel it cost him the fight.