Honest Mike Tyson Question

The matchmaking for that fight was brilliant. Of course Larry was scared. He had no right to be in that ring. But the Larry Holmes name is a great name on anyone’s win column. But it is possibly the worst ever version and certainly the least prepared. Tyson did what needed to be done but the performance bares no relation what could have been had Larry been active or winning over the last year rather than three years.

I totally agree. Holyfield really benefits from this and it is a situation barely much different from Thomas or Tubbs facing Tyson. The heavyweight title picture was orchestrated in such a way for Tyson that a man who He could already beat and another man who did not want to fight could give him two belts. With the feeble Bruno and Seldon out of the way Tyson was still waiting to experience some resistance in his comeback. Holyfield, as you say was fighting at a better level. Even coming off a loss to Bowe he was more used to serious competition. People forget this and praise Holyfield for beating the real version of Tyson. Mike could have still had some good wins left in him if he got through that fight but he became a part timer after that. A pity because wins over Golota and Botha were as good as anyone else could produce.

You are correct. It certainly does not stand up that Berbick was no good. He wasn’t great but he was a handful for a lot of years. Berbick was a tough hombre and one of Tyson’s best wins based on the opponents form. I think Berbick, Smith, Tucker, Biggs, Bruno And Williams were at least live challengers.

Tyson did what he had to do. He certainly didn’t have any trouble with Tubbs and he certainly should not have. It’s what a great fighter does to a poor one. Tubbs was the weakest of challengers. This was his Scott Frank or Jose Roman.

 

The mentioned fighters primes:

Tyson 35-0 (31)
Foreman 40-0 (37)
Louis 58-1 (50)
WIlder 41-0 (40)

Gonna add that in my post prior.

 

Actually Tubbs seems to be winning the first round, but Mike at the time could preasure his opponents all day if needed, thus it neutralize his opponents skills. Some of his fights such as Green and Smith fights, it looks like tough fights on the surface because it went into distance but remember that those guys didnt do anything offensively. They just slapping and holding Mike all day. Mike even dropped his hands alot in those fights, cause they simply avoided to trade punch with him.

Against Tucker & Bruno , Mike was actually got nailed by a good punch but he was physically well prepared and very durable during Rooney's day thus he was able to regained his composure so quick and turned the fight around.

I think his fight against Tucker probably his best win, considering Tucker's form at the time plus his skills and size . Mike was able to win that fight after making some adjustment but against Bruno, he actually relied on his brute strength. Bruno being a very stiff fighter simply wasnt made for fighting someone like Mike, cause he'd eventually get caught by those bombs.

When Tyson came out from prison I believe Bruno was champion after beating Mccall who actually won the belt by beating Lennox. So Tyson simply did his job, destroying Bruno for the second time.

 

While he did beat a bunch of current and former champs in his first reign, most were not at their absolute best when they fought Tyson.

Berbick:

This was a very good win for Tyson. Berbick was a little past his best but still very good and Tyson destroyed him.

Smith:

This was a good win. Coming off a first blowout of an admittedly distracted Witherspoon. Smith was still in his prime but just too limited to beat Tyson.

Thomas:

He was degraded quite a bit from his (short) prime. He didn't look good in the loss to Berbick. Tyson finished off what was left of Thomas. He was shot after Tyson got done with him.
This is a decent win that looks better on paper.

Tucker:

Tucker was prime, but hadn't fought a high level of competition and his development was likely somewhat stunted as a result. Still, he was a very good boxer with a great chin. Tyson was tested.
A good win for Tyson.

Holmes:

Coming off an almost two year layoff, and at age 38, Holmes was five years removed from his prime. Still, he was a decent top 10 type. He didn't have the legs to stay away from Tyson's power, and he had always been vulnerable to big right hands. Tyson landed one in the 4th round, and although Holmes showed heart trying to survive the round, he was on borrowed time, and Tyson closed the show difinitivley.
A good win for Tyson. that looks better on paper.

Tubbs:

Largely inactive and coming in at 238.5 lbs, Tubbs didn't utilize the movement he showed just a few years earlier in beating Page and losing a close decision to Witherspoon. He tried to fight standing right in front of Tyson. With his limited punching power, this proved to be suicide and he was summarily dismissed with a left hook near the end of round 2.
A good win for Tyson that looks better on paper.

Spinks:

This is probably Tyson's best win. Although not a natural Hvy, Spinks had managed to twice beat a fading Holmes. He was supposed to at least be a test for Tyson, but was easily blown away in a minute and a half.
A great win for Tyson.

Then, Tyson fired Rooney had never looked be as good again. His defense, especially, degraded, after he stopped working with Rooney.

What could have been......................

 

I think Biggs was his best win. He took his time. Was very professional and economical breaking down an unbeaten Olympic champion, the first not to win the heavyweight title since 1964.

I just think Tyson almost had too much going for him during his reign. It was not so much his fault though, I think it was to do with the dilution of the ratings the HBO tournament, the lack of equal opposition among the challengers and fear.

 

I wanted to stay with HWs, as Tyson was one og those.
Marciano is very close to this at his weight devision with 87.76% KO!
Nevertheless, eight of these stoppages came round 8 or later, eventually due to attrition.

Tyson: Beside Ferguson, Ribalta, Thomas and Biggs, all of this stoppages prior 6 rounds, twenty one of them (this is 60%) inside two rounds or less!

Foreman: Twenty-five stoppages in two rounds or less (62.5%)! Just one fellow was unlucky enough to go 7 before the got stopped, basically everyone got pollaxed early.

Those two simply share that unique characteristic.

 

You´re bashing on Tucker for "not beating" anyone, but the obv. less durable 15-fight Biggs with his two doubtful attempts against Snipes and Bey possessed higher warranty than beating Broad and Douglas?
Just some months passing the Olympics and fighting as a pro, Biggs had to go to drug rehab.

 

It’s not bashing Tucker to say he never beat anyone before he was selected to fight for a vacant title because he didn’t fight anyone before he was selected to fight for a vacant title. It is actually true.

Tucker did alright against Tyson, but that’s probably a mark against Tyson because Tucker didn’t really bother anyone any good. Tyson comfortably did the 12 rounds though and was in control but he did not look so well prepared as he did against Biggs. He was heavier and parts of his hair had been falling out because of his partying.

For performance, Tyson looked trim and much more alert and sharp against Biggs. Who knows how good Biggs might have become if he had not taken the beating he did against Tyson? I watched the fights Biggs had with Bey and Snipes and also the one against Jeff Simms and Quick Tillis and thought he showed a lot of important qualities. He had heart. He handled Tillis better than Tyson did just months before Tillis nearly beat Tyson.

We are short of heavyweights as good as Tyrell Biggs these days.

 

Going into the fight, Spinks was a legit pick to dethrone Tyson. It's only because he handled Spinks so easily that folks think otherwise.

 

If it was so clear and "obvious" tyson was the man the odds wouldn't be so close between him and spinx. People wouldn't call it a 50/50 fight. Spinx was undefeated and the first man to have defeated Holmes, the previous reigning champion.

 

Yes, Tyson was deservedly getting the fanfare because he made the transition from knocking out tomato cans to actually knocking out decent level fighters like Frazier and Thomas. But the difficulty he had with Tucker and Smith gave just enough doubt that a better fighter like Spinks would have a serious chance of beating Tyson. That was entirely rational to assume.

Spinks really was better than Tucker and Smith.

But when it came down to it Spinks had just been out of the ring too long and his heart was no longer really in it. He was badly out-psyched on the night.

 

I'm sorry, Spinks was just never a heavyweight. Don't care what the scale says. If people were blind enough to think he could beat Tyson, that's on them. Must have been a lot of people who didn't know much.

 

Interesting post.
I dont see how it could've been any different though as there really was nobody else but very interesting.
To be fair, in Biggs case he suffered a bad cut versus Bey and had to wait a few months. He was scheduled to be Tysons opponent after Bonecrusher but Thomas took his place .
Biggs had beaten Tillis Simms and Snipes before Bey. The Biggs / Bey fight was on Bonecrusher / Tyson undercard .
The point you make about them all waiting in line for their turn was a good one.
Few of them took risky fights as they didnt wanna blow their chance of the Tyson payday. Interesting that Douglas looked the best prepared . The fact that Tucker beat him before he fought Tyson further emphasises that Tucker was a good opponent, who while unbeaten could've been anything, same as Biggs.

 

Spinks beat a still very good genuine heavyweight champion. So of course Spinks was a heavyweight. He took care of business like a good fighter should when faced with lower opposition like Cooney and Tangstad. However, It is entirely rational to assume that because Spinks opposition deteriorated he had himself dropped an echelon bellow championship level due to inactivity. I think he agreed to take part in a Tyson fight for all the wrong reasons. I don’t think he was that enthusiastic.

 

You can see how history might have led them to expect a competitive fight.

People would have looked at Louis Conn I, and Marciano's fights against Charles, and of course Spinks's fights with Holmes.

Why would they have expected a blowout?