Ali vs Liston II: the "Phantom Punch"

All the hard evidence points to a KO win for Ali. No evidence of a fix whatsoever. Suggest watching the fight instead of making things up as you go. Study up my illiterate friend!

 

I accept your concession in full. I suspected you wouldn't be able to address my questions, nor explain your illogical reasoning. You simply saying, ALL the evidence points to a KO win, shows how bias you are and how bad your logical deduction skills truly are. You know what that means.... STUDY UP!!!

 

No, I'm suggesting it's unreasonable to expect Izenberg or anyone else to accurately quote something he may or may not have heard someone shout across a ring 30 years previously. It will take more than that to convince me that the entire ringside press either didn't hear Ali say this or didn't think it worth mentioning.

 

Concession?

You have no evidence. Zero.

See that right hand that shook Liston earlier in the round? See the KO blow that jerks Listons jaw and head violently? THATS EVIDENCE.

SEE Liston stagger after the bout is over? THATS EVIDENCE.

Liston asking for smelling salts for the first time ever after the bout? THATS EVIDENCE.

Read the SI article. THATS EVIDENCE.

The bout was investigated and nothing was found that pointed to a fix. THATS EVIDENCE.

If ignorance was bliss you would be a saint.

 

This is a big help imo.

 

It would depend on where the reporters were seated would it not? Izenberg was there ,he made notes on what happened, as it happened.You are implying he is depending on his memory accurately recollecting events from 30 years ago and that simply is not the case. If his memory had failed him , he has his notes to refer to.

 

Lowell Cohn -There's been speculation that he [Liston] threw the fight. Do you think he was ashamed of that?”

Floyd Patterson - I thought that, too. Clay was not a puncher. I know because I fought him twice. I saw Cleveland Williams hit Liston with everything, and Liston just walked through it. When Clay knocked Liston out, he threw a punch almost like a push. Then Liston rolled around on the canvas. I found it hard to believe."

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/3976969-181/ali-liston-ii-cohn-calls-it?page=2

 

Beautiful!!!

 

Ali shouting at him to get up....he knew he dived.

 

I see you still failed to address the questions, yet had the time to make this post. I'll ask again, if Liston said he could've gotten up, and Ali thinks he could've gotten up, then how could it be a KO blow?

We have what was called irregular betting right before the fight in favor of Ali, specifically by first round KO. Evidence

We physically can see the punch was an arm punch while off balance and moving slightly backwards. Evidence

We see that it DOESN'T violently knock Liston's head backwards. Evidence.

We know that Liston had never been KO'd prior to the arm punch landing. Yet that punch is the one to finally do it? Evidence

We know that Ali, the person throwing the punch and felt it's leverage and impact better than anybody alive, didn't think it was enough to keep him down and thought something was fishy. Hence saying get up get up you bum nobody will believe this. When he went back to his corner, he says, he laid down. You don't make that comment if you think he couldn't have gotten up. Evidence

We have countless fighters and trainers who all claim that blow wasn't hard enough to KO Liston. Evidence.

We see Liston's reactions and it's a reaction that looks like bad acting. He goes to a knee, then falls over for some reason. Then lays down like he's been KO'd, notices nobody is counting. Gets up to his knees again, and for some reason tops overs and flails around again. Still notices he's not being counted out, and gets up. It simply looks like bad acting on Liston's part. Evidence.

We know Liston himself didn't believe it was a KO blow, as he flat out said that he could've gotten up. So it can't be a KO blow. Evidence

The two people who know better than anybody about the power of the blow and the leverage behind it both didn't think it was enough to keep him down. Yet, you think a SI article, random fighters comments trump the two people closest to the action. Your deductive logic skills are rather pedestrian.

 

Bull****. Where is the audio of what Ali shouted in the ring that night?

Watch Liston stagger mid ring after the bout was stopped.

Liston asked for smelling salts, first time ever, after the bout.

Watch Listons head and jaw jerk violently from the blow. Liston after the bout “l never thought he could hit that hard”.

Both Ali Liston bouts were investigated and no evidence was found of a fix. Where is the investigation that concluded it was a dive?

 

FBI year long investigation of the second Ali Liston bout:

“The FBI spent more than a year unsuccessfully searching for evidence of fixing in the 1965 championship fight between Muhammad Ali and Sonny Liston, according to newly released documents.”

“Throughout the late 1960s, the FBI monitored Ali and his ties to the Nation of Islam. A set of records released last month showed the bureau chronicling Ali’s life in detail during this period, making note of everything from gossip magazine items about him to the contents of his divorce proceedings. But a second set of documents, released this week, have something new—more than 50 pages describing the FBI’s repeated, fruitless attempts to determine whether Ali’s 1965 defeat of Liston was fixed. No evidence was found that this bout was fixed.”

 

Why would the FBI be monitoring Ali and his ties??? If it was a fix it never came from Ali's side. What a farce.

 

I think he makes it up as he goes along.

 

Read what I posted again. There is an investigation of Ali AND an investigation regarding whether the second Ali Liston bout was fixed. This investigation produced no evidence that there was a fix.