Ali vs Liston II: the "Phantom Punch"

Did he make it selling treadmills?

 

You insult people all the time ,you have the thin skin of an opera diva. Posters refer to it all the time.

 

I can see him being too fast for old George,Bowe might be more problematical.

 

Bowe would have to do his best work on the inside, where Tyson was ineffective.

Tyson hurts him at mid / close range IMO.

 

Yup, that's when he would be most dangerous and effective.

 

I was lucky to not panic during the 2009 stock market melt down. Then enjoyed the incredible run up until the end of last year. At that time I took my “legacy“ retirement accounts and put them into 3-5 year cd’s. So now these $ are completely safe with interest rates around 3.20% (not bad for no risk accounts!) and will be my main funds (other than social security, several pensions and an IRA) to fund my retirement in 4 years (from this coming January). So although I did miss some run up the past 8 months I rest easier that my retirement is “in the bag” so to speak completely shielded from decline. I know exactly what my minimal retirement income will be (I’ll have more money to spend than I do now every month) assuming no major overhaul of social security.

I do have my current 401k which I invest through my employer that I completely max out. In four years I’ll combine what I have here with my cd $ to further increase my monthly income.

My wife’s 401k we don’t plan on touching until she has to start touching it at 70.5 (maybe extended to 72). She is 5 years younger than I but will retire when I do. This growth over that time should replenish most of what we spend up until then or at least a lot of it.

So to address your comment; yes I am doing well. Such a relief to get to the point in life where retirement is within reach and funds are locked down to pay for it.

 

You know I'm not gonna get personal...But in watching the final sequence of the fight in slow motion, I don't think Liston looks that great. He's staring blankly at a point away from Walcott as the official calls time in, and while he's got enough wherewithal to avoid Ali's rights, he's not making any effort to counter, hold, or circle away. Instead, all he does is back away unsteadily as Ali flurries in an effort to finish.

I think Liston is a little bit buzzed after all. In fact, I think Liston was a little bit shaken by right hands prior to the KD...either due to a lack of training, or simply because he couldn't read Ali's speed.

But, on the whole, I actually think the zult was legit.

Ali, as you said, had a sharp, speedy straight right and he could score KD's with it without really committing everything to the shot. He dropped Williams the first time with the same type of shot while moving backward. He face-planted Folley with a similar cross counter. Meanwhile, Liston had been dropped by a counter right by Marshall in one of their fights, and he'd been shaken badly by a seemingly innocuous left hook by Ali in their first fight. He was troubled badly by speed, and Ali had that in abundance.

We'll never know for sure, but I personally think this was a case of Ali having a good night and Liston not being able to respond to it.

 

I wish. Can’t have it both ways!

 

And here you are insulting me with your thin skin.

I respond to insults with insults. And then people like you only point at me lol.

 

probably shovels. He has a natural ability to dig himself into Holes.

 

You're a decent kid ,but you bruise from a stern look. Lose the martyr complex before you become a laughing stock lad!
Seriously . All the best to you.

 

He can be a good poster when he isn't intent on patronising the rest of us,thats what so frustrating.
We know Rhas Al Gooley ,or whatever he calls himself is definitely beyond hope, but Houdini has the making of a real asset to the forum,if he would only drop that," I know best," attitude. Lets hope.

 

This is a fine post , I don't agree with all of it, but its well considered and thought has gone into it.There is a similarity between the right hand that stops Folley and the punch that floors Sonny ,but Liston always had a better chin than Zora.
I'd like some more on the Marshall KD because all I have been able to unearth is Marty's own assertion that he dropped Liston. I've never found a single paper clipping that mentions it.Do you have a primary source for it?

 

Agreed. He definitely knows his stuff. However he continues to act high and mighty and superior to the rest of us. It's very infuriating. He belittles everyone who has a different opinion to him.

 

I don't have primary sources regarding the KD, save for a 1964 article from Sports Illustrated that states that Liston was dropped in the fifth round of their second fight and describes the fight in detail (entited "The four who baffled Liston") For whatever it's worth, a contemporary report of Ali-Liston II from Newsday also alludes to the KD in the Marshall-Liston rematch.

I will definitely agree that Liston's chin, in general, was far superior to that of Folley or Williams. But, I don't think it was completely undentable even at his best, and I don't consider it out of the realm of possibility that he could have been hurt or even dropped by a shot he didn't see and wasn't prepared to take.

Either way, thanks for the kind words.