The great limit of George Foreman

Artis Gilmore is the man in that aspect

 

Larry had the same problem post-1980. That said, he made up for it (especially in the 90s) with his ring generalship, ability to roll, and expert clinching and other ring tricks.

 

George in the 70s was convinced he was King Kong or something which definitely had an effect on his fights with Ali and Young. He kept winning all these fights (hell, he beat the crap out of Joe twice) and his head just kept getting bigger and bigger. That's why Ali, Lyle, and Young surprised the hell out of him.

One of the great things about the BG of the 90s is that he did seem to have more humility (at least in comparison). So when he got hit hard or just outslicked, he didn't get mentally messed up the way he did in the 70s.

 

Lack of head movement, cumbersome in his punching technique.His power compensated for his deficiencies.

 

Foreman was an aggressive puncher so one should not knock him for not having great boxing skills. However he had that quick ramrod jab and really unbelievable power in both fists. Add to this the will to win, killer instinct of an ATG. He was deceptively quick.

 

In some ways I think Big George's jab was better than Ali or Holmes' GASP! (not just in terms of power). It's just that it was so ridiculously underused....

OT but Joe had a damn good jab as well.

 

Foreman actually used his jab well and often especially in his second career. In his more prime years his jab was called the best since Joe Louis. Prime George wanted to get his opponents out of there so his jab was put on the back burner. Against Ali, his jab was in many ways taken away from him by Ali’s right hand over that punch. Without that jab George does not have a successful second career in the late 80’s- 90’s.

 

It's somewhat of a coincidence you mention that, because I've been on a Foreman comeback tear for the past few days and what you wrote is pretty darn evident there. I can't count how many times announcers have mentioned how woefully little George threw his jab in the 70s, plus there are a couple of fights during the comeback where his former trainer Gil would complain about such underuse again and again.

In fact, I think it was either the Cooper pr Qawu fight (which I am guessing were the most important fights of the pre-Holy George) where Clancy complained more than once...until George did start using it and basically won the fight with it.

I could wrong on the fights, etc.

 

Thanks...
I'm not sure how good or bad Frazier was that night , but he was a relic of the guy from the FOTC. It's the Frazier win that gets Foreman through no fault of his own to be so overrated. Since the FOTC ,Joe had fought a couple of B list challengers and even his manager wanted him to retire. He had spent alot of time touring with his music band and there were lots of rumours over his health ( blood pressure / eyesight to name but 2 ) . To compound these issues Frazier stood right In front of Foreman and let him tee off. If any other smallish HW had done that in front of GF it wouldve been seen as madness and an easy nights work for George, but the very name of Frazier attaches a huge significance to the win , far bigger than the performance deserved because of the condition that Joe showed up in for all the reasons I've described. None of this was Foremans fault . I think it actually worked against him as he believed in his own ' invincibility ' and that his one dimensional style would conquer all.... until he got in a ring with a guy who could see his limitations and had the wherewithal to expose them. To have this done to him by Ali was no disgrace , but the Young fight really unpicks the Foreman mythology for me.
In between , the Lyle fight exposed him further , Lyle was not a noted monster but matched him blow for blow. They traded equally until Lyle marginally gassed out first. Foreman showed great courage in that fight , even though his tactics were as one dimensional as ever.

 

He was very strong .
But with respect, that's not what the question asked .

 

To me also Joe was different (and definitely nowhere near as good) after the FOTC. The hospital stay probably had a lasting impression on him.

As for George...well, Lyle was a contender who actually gave Ali trouble in his titular defense. And George ended up ruining him so...

The Young fight only proved what most of us already knew...George had MASSIVE trouble with people who moved well, and avoided them in the 70s. Every great champ has his Achilles' heel, Young only reinforced common knowledge (though I admit, at the time of the fight I was Foreman crazy and blindly expected him to win).

 

I know what you mean.
I think people felt he only lost in Zaire because of Ali's greatness ( which is partly true of course )
It took the Young fight to rubber stamp that it was also due to his own limitations, which were once again evident.

 

Ali proved that, despite Foreman's long record at the time, he just wasn't experienced enough mentally. Ali totally outsmarted him...and George completely deleted his dumber instincts for the comeback.

 

What a blur of mixing two completely different careers with redundancies , incorrect information, lack of detail and revisionism.

 

Wasn't Briggs an established contender when George beat him?