The great limit of Larry Holmes

I like it when people post in here as if they're the only ones among us that's ever seen a fight and can comment intelligently about it.

Please. Continue.

 

And yet Witherspoon supposedly could, and still loss to a past prime Holmes.

 

Before Ali's hands were damaged totally I think he had a stronger right than Holmes. When Ali came down off his toes he was both stronger and more powerful than Larry. Better in every category to be honest. Holmes was great as well but maybe 85% of Ali.

 

Gotta give Frazier his due for that. He was bobbing and weaving, coming in low. Ali was stand-up fighter at 6 ft 3 inches tall. When Joe came in low, he got in close. There is a blind spot in your vision everyone has it. Frazier got in there and with that hook to both the body and the head. It wasn't an average hook it was a whip. Also the consistent body assault of Joe Frazier had Ali leaning forward at times to protect that body. That put them in range for that vicious hook. Ali called it "an evil thing that hook"
Sometimes Ali would score two or three punches to Frazier's head and Joe would still come back with that whip. Larry Holmes would have the same problem trust me. He never fought anybody like Joe Frazier until he faced Tyson and we can't put too much stock in that one. Larry even spoke about Joe Frazier breaking his ribs in sparring. It's one thing to say "I'm going to keep my right up and stop the hook" it's another to be able to maintain that when the pain of those body punches becomes reality as well as fatigue. Joe doesn't come in just once in awhile he's coming 3 minutes around every exchange it's happening. He was a ****ing nightmare.
Even George Foreman didn't want to catch inside hooks from Frazier. He was 6 ft 3 inches tall as well. When Joe got inside Foreman shoved him back. He wanted to see the shots coming and make Joe reach.

 

Ali ate plenty of Left hooks in Manila. Once Padilla somewhat limited his holding Joe inside. If anything in superfight #2 Ali was effective grabbing Joe and pulling it him in. Blunting Joe Frazier's offense. Muhammad did this excessively in fight number two. 113 * in 12 rounds.

 

Larry was a complete fighter in my view.

 

That’s a boring old argument you’re peddling there, old hat.
Plenty people don’t believe Ali was the greatest.
There are plenty who think Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis or whoever.

 

Well prime Ali was better than prime Holmes so imagine if Ali had a big punch.......................

 

The simple fact of the matter is that we all have access to loads of Ali footage, particularly pre-exile peak Ali, and can see exactly what he was. We also have loads of footage of the likes of Liston, Frazier, Patterson, Foreman and the ridiculous number of other top 10 heavyweights he fought.

 

Nah, Holmes he the better jab and heavier right cross and uppercut. Ali had faster hands and feet. Everything else was fairly evenly comparable.

 

I got news for you , I don't think Ali has faster hands ... Just because Ali endlessly said he was the fastest does not make it so .. Patterson was at least as fast as was Tunney ... Holmes was right in there as far as hand speed. Foot speed was Ali.

 

I got Patterson as number one followed by Tyson, Ali, Dokes and Hide. Holmes weren’t far behind but I still think 60s Clay / Ali was quicker.

 

In fight one it was almost as if Frazier could not miss with his hook hitting Ali from mid and long range to the head from very early in the fight. Fight three Joe struggled to land those same blows. It’s not a question that Ali was not hit with hooks in fight three but the manner in which he was hit was skewed to infighting but even here Ali defended his chin well as compared to fight one.

Ali is listed as the best as he not only exhibited all the attributes of all time greatness but also had a laundry list of very tough opposition that he generally defeated. Ali proved himself to be the best really like no other. Ali has the very unusual combination of great boxing ability...incredible speed and movement, combinations and an all time jab but also he was as tough as they come. Tremendous will to win.

 

He was the best. But neither Louis nor Holmes were inordinately far away, and I don't think Ali even at his incredible best could have stopped either of those fighters (decision, absolutely).