The great limit of Larry Holmes

Ali was scientifically determined to have a faster jab than SRR. So unless you have another objective analysis that shows another hwt champion was measured to be quicker Ali stands alone.

 

I could see him stopping both in actuality. Ali in his prime could cut you to ribbons with his punches. Also he was developing KO power in his right via timing that very quick blow as opponents came forward stepping to him. This plus the volume of punches Ali was able to throw could lead to a TKO victory over any fighter.

 

Hey, you're a (completely understandable) big fan of Ali. I love Ali a lot too, I just love Larry more. So we could both go on like this for days.

And btw, it's pretty easy to get onboard with your liking Ali so much, my friend.

To me punch stats etc. don't mean much. That's a computer, one that doesn't understand the incredible value of a champion's heart, or anything vitally subjective to the sport.

But that's just me. I see Ali winning a hard fought decision against Holmes, Ali did NOT have the kind of right that could have stopped Larry (though it might be possible if he slipped in a Liston/Foreman sneaky right).

Either way, I just can't get behind the idea of Ali stopping Larry when he couldn't stop Frazier (who quit in TiM). Larry had a better chin than Joe, and I doubt too many people will take umbrage with that assertion.

 

They were all super fast .. the difference between these guys in fractions of seconds ..

 

Dude Ali was never , ever a big puncher. Fast, courageous, game, talented, exceptional without question but never a puncher. At best he is middle of the pack of the heavyweight champs and I'd say even lower than that ..

 

Holmes having a better chin than Frazier is highly questionable. They both took a great shot. Both got knocked down but Holmes didn't take anywhere near the punches Joe took. I doubt that he could've. Lucky for Larry he didn't have to take those punches like Joe Frazier did.

 

I’m actually not a “fan” of Ali. I just understand how great he was. Most do not.

Ali’s punches were ripping cutting blows that would bust up Holmes. Not saying he would KO Holmes. He would TKO Holmes at some point over a 15 round distance. Ali really was the far greater fighter.

 

All Holmes needed is a date with Foreman in the 70's, a win and he is the best.

 

Larry's power was fine. Even at the end of his career, fighters were kept honest and couldn't carelessly walk in on him. Those that, did more times than not, found themselves on the canvas or rocked pretty good from his right hand. His biggest limit was his left hook. He had an underrated body attack, as mentioned already his straight right was pretty hard, his jab speaks for itself, his right hook and his uppercuts were dangerous. Out of all things that have really helped him win fights, his left hook was never a big contributor.

Had his left hook been better, he would've had a much easier time beating Carl Williams and Tim Witherspoon. He would've had an easier time with Michael Spinks as well. When fighters fought him, they knew they didn't have too much to worry about when it came to his left hook, and it allowed them to focus more on avoiding his other punches. Give him a better left hook and suddenly they have that much more to look out for and it increases his chances of landing other punches and gives him a better path to winning. It would also give Holmes more to work with in his combinations. He knew his left hook wasn't a strong point and used it sparingly.

 

Larry took flush shots from Cooney, who George said hit even harder than Frazier. Norton was also absolutely no joke as a puncher, and hit him flush about a baker's dozen times during their fight. I don't see Joe taking those shots as well, especially Cooney (given Gerry's height, reach and size...not too dissimilar to Big George).

I'm wondering if you would have written as much had I mentioned Norton instead of Frazier.

 

Absolutely no disrespect or offense meant, but check how many times you wrote that. That's something a fan does, my friend.

Being a fan of Ali is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. What you're writing remains (and will remain subjective), there's no objective truth in what you're saying.

That said, our subjective opinions are the bread and butter of any forum. It's just that you are very insistent...Ali was the greatest heavyweight, but Joe Louis, Larry Holmes, Holyfield, and Lewis, were not exactly out in left field as far as quality comparisons go. They all would have given Ali a hell of a fight and cannot be dismissed by any Ali-is-god argument. Most knowledgeable people here would agree.

Ali couldn't knock out Frazier and Norton (and didn't exactly wipe out Patterson either time)...how is he stopping Larry Holmes?

 

Ali stopped Frazier in 1975.

We are talking prime Ali which would be 1965-1968.

Like other greats before him Ali’s record stands on its own. Greatest competition, he fought the hardest punchers/most dangerous contenders and he almost always won. In fact a focused in shape Ali always won until the very latter part of his career. This comes from someone who rooted against him in every fight he had from 1970 to 1980.

 

Frazier quit, my friend. Big difference.

 

Every single post about Ali that you've ever posted suggest that you are a bigger liar than Pinocchio.

 

Totally exaggerated.