Ali vs Liston II: the "Phantom Punch"

Thank you.
Do you know where this is from?

 

I've seen some pretty darn insightful posts from @HOUDINI I just think he might have made the mistake once or twice of overvaluing stats over heart and perhaps coming across like subjective viewpoints were objective. Those are minor mistakes we've probably all made, no big deal at all.

I haven't experienced personal attacks, he's always been pretty civil to me.

 

I'm on my way to believing Liston got caught by a shot he never saw, same as Foreman with those sneaky shots in Zaire.

With a punch out of nowhere (I realize most people know this already) it doesn't take anywhere near full force of body to put the other guy out. It can be a very average punch, as long as it's not seen.

Another good example: the shot Snipes knocked down Larry with wasn't even Coetzee-level of power. But watch the video, Larry couldn't have had a clue that was coming. And it really messed him up, albeit for not long at all (it says tons that Larry was back in control shortly after...more proof of his greatness).

 

I have to make a correction here ,it wasnt his brother it was the Muslim Minister Rahman same words different man, I trust my mistake will be accepted as a natural one in the circumstances.

 

He has the makings of a decent poster if he can leave his conceit at home. As for the insults, no worries there.

 

Your correct I've just trawled through all 21 pages!.On balance I think he went into the tank and that it was pre-arranged,though the round may well not have been.He may have thought," well he's clipped me here I'll just stay down".Ill never be convinced that the punch was sufficiently hard to keep him down for the count and neither were.
George Chuvalo
Joe Louis
Don Dunphy
Eddie Futch
Jerry Izenberg
Billy Conn
Congrats on keeping your emotions in check.

 

An official FBI investigation that found no evidence of a fix is objective evidence. We have First hand accounts from eye witnesses, Listons own trainers. You can observe Liston staggering near mid ring 20 seconds or so after the bout has been stopped. Most important you can see the punch and it’s effect.

 

The found no evidence of the Mafia for 40 years, why would I believe them!
And you've made 2 statements in the last week on Pacheco and X Rays, the other on Seamus ,and both are lies.You been asked to provide proof and ignored it. That is objective evidence that you are a liar.So why would anyone give you any credence?

I believe the evidence of my own eyes
The statements of Pacheco,Walcott, Izenberg.
And the opinions of
Don Dunphy
George Chuvalo
Jerry Izenberg
Edddie Futch
Joe Louis
W C Heinz
Jimmy Cannon"I didnt feel the punch was hard enough to crush a grape,it was a hoax"
Jack Dempsey who expected something like the result prior to the fight.
Billy Conn.
Red Smith
Peter Wilson

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Teddy Brenner talking to Red Smith about a conversation he witnessed that Joe Louis had in Liston's dressing room with him immediately before the second Ali fight .
Before the Lewiston affair, Teddy and Joe Louis visited Liston. ''Louis patted Sonny on the back and said, 'Good luck, Sonny.' ''Liston looked him straight in the eye. He said, 'Joe, I don't feel so good.' Joe said: 'What do you mean, you don't feel so good? You gonna win.'

''Liston looked down. When he raised his head, he said, 'Just ain't right, Joe.' ''



"But only a few were convinced. Commentator Don Dunphy said: “If that was a punch, I’ll eat it,” he said. “Here was a guy who was in prison and the guards use to beat him over the head with clubs and couldn’t knock him down.”

In 1967, three years before his equally mysterious death, Liston allegedly told Sports Illustrated journalist Mark Kram that he took a dive over fears he might get shot by a bullet aimed for Ali." Box Rec

 

Wikipeadia.

Any comment on this?

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LOL I was thinking the same thing. I don't think posting that helps his case at all..

 

I believe the reason he doesn't use the quote function is because he is to arrogant and proud to reply to someone directly. He can't possibly do anything as degrading as acknowledging us.

 

The punch landed but it wasn't a knockout blow...probably not even enough to legitimately knock a guy like Liston down. I don't think Liston's head was in the fight and he went out to go through the motions. He got caught with a quick shot and wanted to call it a day. The confusion between Ali flipping out and the miscommunication between Walcott and what the count should be prompted Liston back up even when he probably didn't want to continue on with the fight. Ali comes in, Liston doesn't do much and the fight is finally called to an end.

Liston didn't react in a usual manner when a guy gets clipped without seeing the punch coming. His legs were fine when got up, not like jelly as one would expect after being caught by surprise flush on the chin from a quick punch. There were so many external factors and so many shady people involved I really think Liston wanted nothing to do with any of it come fight night. Whether he was told to take a fall or decided to on his own is something that will probably never be truly confirmed.

 

Probably because he doesn't know how to use the quota function

 

I don't think the KD was legitimate either. Liston took flush shots off Cleveland Williams likely a harder puncher than himself without blinking and I'm supposed to believe he's going down from a light tap?

 

Do you think Marquez stood up to numerous harder punches throughout his career than the one Floyd caught him with to drop him?