Freddie Steele VS Carlos Monzon

My position on this fight hasn't changed either.

 

Steele decision for me. I think he's the real deal.

 

Does Carlos ever win a head to head showdown?

As much as I love Steele, Carlos is so proven at the championship level that it's almost ridiculous.

Carlos had an answer for every question he was asked. And he was asked some pretty difficult questions over a very long and busy time.

 

Couldn't agree more Seamus.

 

Monzon is ugly perfection he's like a high stat character in a RPG with low tier gear.

 

What sets Monzon apart is his superior ring IQ...maybe a few ring greats have equalled it, but none have surpassed it.

 

Monzon is the greatest middleweight of his time and arguably of all time, I believe he takes this convincingly, the lack of respect towards Monzon here conjures a twitch at times.

On this topic the term "blown up" being applied to EVERY pug who goes up a few pounds in weight for a fight is so infuriating.

God sake Griffth gaining a little weight on a lean frame is normal as he matured compared to that
...abomination...
James "Two Ton" Toney

 

Disrespect? He gets a ton of respect on here, rightfully so. He has a few notable irrational detractors but that makes him no different to most other great fighters. If anything the people who can't stand to hear a remotely critical word about him are just as bad and have something of a complex. I've seen him put in some shockingly one-sided h2h fantasy fights on here at middleweight in his favour and routinely picked to defeat the type of prime, outright atg fighters (who were close to his own size) who he never faced or defeated. Far more so than a less known great like Steele turning the trick. So far in this thread, I think @JohnThomas1 has picked Steele with @BCS8 and @roughdiamond giving Steele a good chance, and they're all cracking posters with excellent knowledge who I find to be reasonable. Most of the thread remainder has gone to the discussion of Steele being a great fighter , which is fine, him being less known and respected by the average fan than Monzon. It makes for a bit of change and it's hardly an insult.

I'm a fan of Monzon as a fighter, he was a great, great boxer and very possibly a great h2h force too. That type of consistent, longstanding title reign is an achievement worthy of high acclaim. It doesn't mean that he was perfect, unbeatable machine or that there aren't any aspects of his career and ability that are above reasonable scrutiny. Some people who revere Monzon as a god confuse viewers who can't grasp or appreciate his unflashy, unspectacular, sometimes awkward but highly refined and clinically effective approach with viewers who can and do but still think that there are valid criticisms to be made (ones that aren't a great detraction in light of his overall greatness). It's a bit depressing.

It's a myth that Monzon beat up blown-up welters and that the fighters his own size were tin cans. Complete bollocks. He actually came up through a solid domestic and continental scene en-route to his title shot that was very competitive if not world class. Napoles was the only hopelessly undersized guy he fought and it has been common throughout history for great fighters to stave off challenges from equally great or greater smaller man rising in weight to challenge them. Briscoe, Tonna, Mundine, Licata, Bouttier, Bogs etc were all good sized middleweights and Monzon was largely convincing in dispatching them.

It's true though that Griffith, Benvenuti and Valdez - the best he faced - were naturally smaller than him and past their best. Indisputably so. He was past his own best for some of those fights and they were still decent fighters, but his size and strength advantages played a big part in his success, a bit more so imo than some other great fighters who were physical units at their prime weight; his style was built around it. Griffith was no longer great though and it's questionable if Benvenuti and Valdez ever were, though Valdez was damned near at least. Those fights should've happened at least a couple of years earlier and it's hard not to lay some of the blame at Monzons camp for that, he didn't seem keen on facing Valdez when Valdez was the top contender and let the titles fragment instead. It's also hard to feel like the best of the rest mentioned earlier, the bigger guys, were truly serious threats to a great fighter like Monzon. It's a serious knock on his legacy if any of them other than Briscoe manage to upset him. To own credit though he was remarkably consistent and ruthless for a long time. Not easy to do.

Steele looks great on film, was nearly as dominant as Monzon, a big middleweight with some great, great wins and had an outstanding record. It's no long shot to give a guy like that a serious chance of winning when he arguably has the tools and style to pull it off, nor disrespectful.

 

I said at times for a reason fellow, no need to stick me at the end of this long spear of post I can't really tell if this is directed at me or the point of it save this for someone who disagrees with you.

 

I see the confusion!
The part I refer to in the absence of respect is the idea of Monzen solely feasting on welterweights.

I do believe that Monzon wins convincingly, but it's no disrespect that he is in the ring with a master such as Steele! forgive my post if you've mistaken me for a blind fan boy it was too early for me.

 

Sorry, it wasn't aimed purely you, I should've said, I didn't need to quote you specifically. I do find the idea that Monzon get 's disrespected on here baffling, he's very highly rated by most save a few biased people. It's been said before in Monzon threads after maybe one or two innocuous criticisms of him or favouring another fighter that there's some kind of agenda against him and that we're all too stupid to appreciate his subtle genius. Seamus and cobra are bad for it, though both are good posters (I've enjoyed some of cobras posts especially down the years). So all due respect. Apologies if if it looked like I was targeting you fella.

 

Out of interest how much disrespect have you seen toward Monzon in your 11 days as a member here?

Agree he didn't feast on welters, Monzon, Hagler etc they all had a few