rocky marciano vs larry holmes

For me Marciano's physical toughness is very overrated.

Does anybody seriously think that someone who was got up from a 40 year old Moore and a 38 year old Walcott is more proven physically than someone who got up from Tyson, Shavers, Snipes and didn't go down against Witherspoon, Shavers (1st) and Norton?

 

The swarmer is the pure boxers kryptonite, because they can smother them in close, and prevent them from doing what they want to do.

Throughout the history of the sport, swarmers have always overperfomend against pure boxers.

That is not to say that Holmes can't win, but he is on the wrong end of the stylistic dynamic here!

 

While Holmes is a punishing hitter, I don't think that he is on a different level to the guys Marciano beat.

If we were matching him against say George Foreman, I would see your point.

I could flip that argument around, and ask who Holmes fought that was on Marciano's level.

The bottom line is that they both fought in comparatively weak eras, so you are taking a bit of a leap of faith whoever you pick!

 

Scott Frank

 

Let me play devils advocate here.

At least Marciano was fighting the best of his era, when they were the best.

There is obviously nothing wrong with the mean ranking of his title challengers!

 

I don't think that was luck. Walcott was slowing, Marciano was getting to him. I think there was a very good chance of it happening. Rocky couldn't see properly for a decent bit of it too, without that it probably would have happened sooner.

 

Rocky would come on as always thw Rock 14

 

Seamust lying again. No poster should believe a single word he writes. Yes it’s THAT bad.

Marciano was a fitness freak which was why he could punch non stop for 15 rounds. For a slugger to do so requires extreme physical fitness.

 

Again, I have quoted multiple, very consistent accounts of Marciano's training regimen before the Walcott 2 and Charles 1 fights. I would not describe 5 miles of running, some simple fitness routines and sparring a couple guidos as Herculean. Perhaps you would.

And again we come to this impasse where you offer nothing of substance, nothing backed by any source or remotely intellection rigor. You have tired, old yarns that somehow impress you as insightful and hamfisted ad hominem. As a great movie once stated, Fat, Drunk and Stupid. That's no way to go thru life.

You are, as we say in my beloved West Texas heimat... All Hat and No Cattle.

 

http://rippeder.com/content/rocky-marcianos-training

A quick google search turned this up with a couple of first hand quotes thrown in. I can't comment as to how accurate it is suffice to say that it at least suggests Marciano may have trained a bit harder than light running and star jumps. Marciano was undoubtedly fit and in possession of great endurance (I can't recall many fights where he gassed out anyway) so his training must have worked well enough for him.

Also I don't see why you feel the need to resort to using derogatory (or even racist) term such as "guido" when referring to Italian-Americans much less why you get away with it. If I called Ezzard Charles a sp*de I'd expect to get my arse booted.

 

Got that quote from Seamus in which you say he stated," Kovalev was an all time great"?
I disagree with some of Seamus' opinions but I've never known him to lie.

Whereas I caught you out on the Willard Xrays and you never replied. So who is the liar?

 

I think Marciano was always in top condition,too,but let's not forget he was often fighting older men past their best.
You would expect him to do well stamina wise against the likes of Louis 36,Walcott 38,Moore 38/40 wouldn't you.

 

Walcott was an old man.why wouldn't he be slowing?

 

Can Marciano win this on points? 99% of people will say no.Therefore he has to ko Holmes .Since Holmes got up from that Bomb from Shavers and went on to win I say Marciano doesn't win this.His one chance is to land his Suzie Q.
That isn't rubbish, it's logical common sense!

I tell what's "a stylistic night mare. "A stubby, 5'10" slowish guy, without a great defence possessing a 68" reach and cut prone skin, advancing into the path of a 6'3" 215lbs man's 81" reach and into an all time great jab a short croucher coming in just nicely for an all time great uppercut. That's a night mare!
He isnt trying to wear down a 38 years old champ here or a 40ish challenger a fat non puncher like Cokkell or an average boxer with low power like Lastarza under190lbs or an ex champ with high mileage on his clock like Charles who had lost 2 of his last 4 fights, he is fighting a 215lbs all time great who proved he was capable of getting up of the floor from the right hand of possibly the hardest puncher of all time , and not only getting up, but going on to win. A fighter who gutted it out against Ken Norton fighting with a torn left biceps.
Now stop being the," self appointed professor," of the Classic Forum and explain to us how he achieves this!

 

Holmes didn't have a thieving manager,he had a thieving promoter.
Marciano wasnt mismatched early in his career he was carefully coddled and once he hit NY, he had his manager who was also the matchmaker for MSG to keep him safe.Look up his record!