Funny enough Ali hit harder then Holmes accordingly to Mutual opponents and is considered the heavyweight GOAT by most.
George takes him barely in my books as does Frazier I have him beating Ali and Sonny though and a large majority of my top twenty five heavyweights he certainly TKO's "The Lion"
60s Ali: wins unanimously points; early 70s Ali beaten on points, split decision. mid to late 70s Ali unanimously decisioned by Larry. Louis: wins by points or quite possibly TKO (Joe did have a miracle right hand) Prime Tyson: KO by Holmes between the 9th and 11th (probably a knockdown involved, though). Prime Foreman: KO by Holmes 9 rounds. Lewis: KO by Holmes 12 rounds or points.
Gee, Earnie says point blank Larry had more power and a better jab than Ali: This content is protected Good luck refuting those point blank statements, my friend. Earnie would know.
Issue at that time had a lot to do with politics. The boxing commissions wanted their own hwt champion and their own challengers to milk the system. Larry by originally beating what were considered the top contenders for the title...Norton, Shavers and then an unretired Ali felt he was the hwt champion and no one could threaten to take this title away from him. (Which was completely true) Regarding Shavers comments concerning Ali and Holmes ...Earnie fought an old very shop worn (in fact sick) Ali. He fought very prime Holmes. Thus Shavers comments carry no weight.
In fairness to Ali, the version of him that Shavers fought, and beat if I remember my card correctly, was very far from his prime and ultimately was the fight that gave him brain damage. Holmes, Leon and Berbick added to it but Shavers was the real beatdown that he took. Shavers had a much harder time against Holmes both times than he did vs Ali
Wlad Klitschko on the other for me... would control Holmes . Vitali would do the same and make it even rougher an more ugly fight. I would add Bowe to give him the SLIGHT edge like 55% . Lewis would jab and grab using legal or illegal punching and be to strong physically . I only voted Ali as well though its a 50/50. Holmes was the better fighter ,but Ali had that niche about him and they did work together so ? Prime Tyson or any Tyson always present a style nightmare for Holmes. Maybe Holmes gets by late 90's one ? IDK like Ali if you take away the jab you really stifle Holmes , I think Holyfield wins 3 out of 5 too. I think some modern guys give him a problem as well , but on his standings in his era not many can really defeat him and many fights look close but fights like Williams and Spinks 2 he did maintain control and an accurate score card would see he won those fights more comfortably then thought. Holmes could have been better then he was ,he coasted through the jab mainly ,he could have put together shots much more and would have seen more knockouts but he didn't train to do that really.
LOL. Ali fought Shavers in 1977. He was more or less a shot fighter. Bad hands etc. Had he faced Ali in even 1973 or 74 it would be a better measure. Your reaching.
Sorry folks, I forgot about how past it Ali was when he fought Earnie. Ali after Foreman wasn't the same.
He showed flashes of greatness; for instance when he woke up and beat Lyle and Shavers, TiM, against Norton III (though he lost that fight). 60s Ali would have tattooed George ceaselessly and never let him land a flush shot. So, to me Ali's last dominating performance against an ATG was Foreman, and the performance itself delineated Ali's declining skills. The thing that stood out most against Foreman for me was a) I thought Ali was in control of most the fight. He took some great shots (everyone remembers THAT uppercut) but beat George to punch so often and so efficiently the latter looked like a fumbler more times than I can count in that fight plus b) The overall, dramatically lessened movement, which was like a totally different fighter compared to even seven years earlier. TiM was a sensational fight...a bit like Holyfield Bowe III, except Holy succumbed much earlier. Two definitely-past-it fighters(Frazier in particular had been pretty much done since FOTC) giving 110%. But I certainly don't count that as a commanding performance against an ATG, Ali had trouble through most of it. Just my opinion.
??? Holmes was very versatile. He had a hook, uppercut a cross and unlike Ali could in-fight. Ali had the slapping left hook. Larry's was better, and I can't recall Ali using an uppercut to win a fight, Holmes knocked people out with that punch. As usual, you don't know what you are talking about. If you want to judge them on fights vs common opponents, Larry was the better ( Norton, Shavers, L. Spinks ) and of course their fight was an utter mis-match, Ali didn't win a 30 second segment. Yes ,Ali was past it by then. I think he would have beaten Ali much sooner if given the chance and Ali himself kicked Holmes out of his sparring because " He was too fast for me ", I think in 1974 or 1975 when he did that.
