That is a manageable weight disparity in such a match up. We are not talking about Lennox Lewis here! You are talking as if Marciano was some one dimensional puncher, whose only game was to try to land a right hand. He was a pressure fighter, who excelled at applying sustained pressure over the course of a fight, and that is what might allow him to succeeded in stopping Holmes, where Shavers failed. That is why Joe Frazier succeeded in beating a young Ali, where Shavers failed against an old one! I cannot emphasize too strongly, that styles make fights, or has everybody forgotten these days? Compare footage of them, and watch how they throw punches, and how their opponents react to their punches. Frazier was fast, and beat people down with an accumulation of punches. Marciano's punches have a numbing quality to them. Even if we take away the Foreman fight, Frazier was down more times, and against lesser fighters. The only advantages a swarmer needs against a technical boxer is pressure. Give him power and pressure, and the technical boxer is in big trouble! Nobody could take Marciano's power, if he was consistently hitting them for fifteen rounds!
Obviously, or the fighter with the stylistic disadvantage wouldn't bother to turn up. I used the term "over perform." The fighter with the stylistic advantage will typically over perform, relative to their respective levels. To use your example Bonavena lost against Frazier, but he did better than their respective levels would have suggested. Swarmers do well against boxers, because they smother them in close, and inhibit them from implementing their game. They make them misfire. They force them to make mistakes. They inflict incremental damage, and break them down one piece at a time. That often allows them to succeed, where other styles fail. I am frankly surprised that I am having to explain all this to knowledgeable posters!
Outperform? Thats not what holmes would do at all. If he didnt think you were on his level he got you out of there or put on a clinic. Look at how he brutally dispatched marvis, leon, he looked annoyed they were even in the same ring with him. Or how he was content to jab cobbs head off for an incredibly lopsided decision. Holmes isnt going to over exert himself and open up unless the opponent pushes him that far. I dont think rockys face survives long enough for him to push Holmes past the 9th. Marciano always shows up and fights his hardest wether its a journeyman or a top contender he's fighting. In this case he is facing a man who has several major advantages in many key areas. Thank you captain obvious. And now for the 3rd time im asking you to explain how rocky overcomes these highlighted advantages? He has to Get. Past. The. Jab. He couldn't do it against a shopworn 37 year old Louis and his face was bruised and swollen from a has beens jab, but He's going to take a prime Holmes jabs just fine and get past them? It took him 13 rounds to, as you put it, "inflict incremental damage and break down" a 38 year old Walcott, a man who who had 18 prior losses and had been stopped 4x previously. Holmes was much tougher than Walcott, faster, and had a longer reach. These are all observable facts, but according to you rocky has the advantage??? And you keep dodging my point that Holmes wasnt only a conventional boxer. He was very well rounded. You are oversimplifying the argument on purpose.
Holmes. Yeah Rock “may” land that right. So. Shavers landed a right. Tyson landed a right in his prime against an ancient Holmes. Wouldn’t matter. Jab would swell Marciano’s eyes shut by round 7
Ezzard Charles took his power for 15 rounds without going down. What makes you think Marciano will be consistently hitting Holmes with power shots, nobody else managed it? Who said the fight is over15 rds? Journeyman Applegate took Rocky's power for the 10rds distance without going down. Stationary Lastarza took Rocky's power for 10 and 11 rds. Walcott for 13rds 178lbs Lowry took it for 20 rounds without being floored. Journeyman Mogard took it for 10rds. Did they have better chins than Holmes?
Marciano might of had as good a chin as Frazier. I doubt he was fighting the same quality of guys Frazier faced early on. Bonevena was Joe's 11th pro fight. Who was Rocky facing in his 11th bout? He was still up in Providence.
Larry quite possibly would be knocked down...sooner or later Rocky's right is going to get through. But I see Rocky's face being even more swoll up than Foreman vs. Stewart at the end of 12 or 15 rounds. Larry by a lopsided, unanimous decision (even with the knockdown). By 1980 Larry had come into his own boxing personality and had markedly improved as a puncher. Rocky with his style couldn't help but eat that jab, and at its best Larry's jab was equal to most heavyweight's hooks. It's potential for cumulative damage was sensational.
On paper, Holmes. In reality, I think the match would be much closer than people would believe, because Marciano lost on paper to nearly all the top guys he beat in he actual ring. If Wesley Snipes could ring Holmes' bell you'd better believe that Rocky could do the same and more. Edit: Wesley Snipes WTF was I thinking I'm gonna leave it because it made me laugh on the re-read and because y'all know who I mean anyway.
Wesley was also a super-vampire hybrid, so Larry was lucky he got up before Wesley swooped down on his ass.
Yeah, yeah, goddamn, I saw it too. Thought I had a minute before some damn forum-vampire hybrid swooped down on my ass
I'll be honest, my friend: your writing that made my morning. I'm glad you did that, helped brighten up the board.
Rocky wins this one rather easily in the 10-15 range. Holmes didn’t have the ability to hold him inside nor have the ability to stop him from getting inside. He tired to easily for someone like Marciano. Holmes could keep traditional fighters at bay with his jab...but Marciano’s not traditional. Holmes wins the early rounds then Rocky punishes him the rest of the way.
Not to mention Cockell who got flattened in 1 by light heavy Jim Slade, got ill with a kidney problem, put on a whole load of weight - fat rather than functioning muscle - and then took Marciano nine rounds with Rocky being allowed to elbow, head butt, hit after the bell. For me, Rocky's record does not match up against the hyperbole surrounding his power that I see on this board. And when I watch him in training trying to hit the speed bag or skip, or in the clips posted by those stating he is a tremendous champion, I never see a fraction of the ability I'm told he possessed. TBH, I don't see the point in posting on any more Marciano threads. Those who like him won't have their opinions changed which is their prerogative. But nor will I, unless a load of film becomes available showing a whole new Rocky because everything I have seen thus far doesn't do much for me.
