And I don’t think Marciano had Tyson or Foreman power. But I he could knock any man out with one punch as well as the next guy. The chin can only take so much. o
2 options: An explosive guy who had great head movement, good defense, power, and good timing to jump on holmes early and make him uncomfortable. A guy who also had height and a troublesome jab and the technique to even the playing field. Someone who wont just let larry have his way with his usual style. We already saw the 1st example with Tyson. Williams and Witherspoon had some success with the 2nd one. Jack Dempsey or lamont brewsrer could give larry trouble with the 1st strategy. Wladmir klitschko or a prime ali could also use tbe 2nd strategy. A guy who had poor defense and tiny arms who swung for the fences, didnt have much of a jab, who bled easily and was easy to hit, would get stopped by almost any version of holmes regardless of how hard rocky hit and how good his chin was. Terrible matchup.
Again, nobody was claiming Ali or Holmes were devastating punchers, not even their die hard fanboys. The shavers example is just bad. Quarry recklessly walked right into shavers range. His corner told him to back off and box. He got nailed right in the face and was lucky he had a good chin or it would have ended there. He just had the counter punching skill, timing, and balls, to catch shavers early before he could warm up. Shavers also admitted he underestimated quarry. Ali stopped Ellis and Frazier, and quarry couldn't put a dent in either guy. Holmes also fought a safety 1st fight both times against shavers and put on a clinic, why would he risk it mixing it up with him? He only went after shavers in the 2nd fight once he saw that shavers had gassed and then he did stop him. I wasnt trying to claim Louis hit harder than marciano. My point was that he wasnt an effective puncher and relied on volume (and occasionally fouls) to stop weak opposition. The fact less noteworthy fighters beat the same opponents faster than he did shows just how sloppy and crude marciano was. And yes their ages matter. Louis, Savold, and walcott were waaay past their physical prime and retired right after marciano, that is no coincidence. Moore was ancient and had tons of mileage on the clock despite his high ranking, that matters. Charles also had tons of mileage and was suffering from ALS. For the hundredth time, im not criticising marciano for beating the men who were the highest ranked opponents available, im pointing out that he was in the right place at tne right time. So many other champion punchers could have done the same or better honestly. My proof for this is, again, the "inferior" common opponents scoring faster ko's against these same men.
They ask Larry Holmes after his masterful performance against Ray Mercer, what would you have done if you were Mercer? How would u have fought? Larry said "I would have tried to turn myself in to Joe Frazier, coming in low, applying pressure, working the body." Joe Frazier was better than Marciano but Rocky would fight a similar style.
Lastarza avoided the punchers that why he wasnt stopped,he was floored by light heavyweight journeymen Rocky Jones a couple of fights before he challenged Marciano for the title.,Commenting on his ko by Marciano and comparing it to the 1st Schmeling fight Louis said, " I was younger then,you can take more punches when you are young." Walcott had 35 fights on his record when he fought Simon and was ko'd , he scaled 192lbs and was 26 years old ,not prime but certainly not a novice either.
Well consisering i favor larry over joe 60/40 and joe is better than marciano, i dont see much chance for marciano!
I think the only version of Joe that Larry doesn't beat is the FOTC Joe. But that doesn't mean too much, I have FOTC Joe beating everybody (you read that right, folks). Pre-FOTC Joe gets a significantly stronger jab and right hand to the face, and runs RIGHT into that big uppercut when coming inside. That said, Joe's sheer will would keep him from getting stopped until the later rounds. The uppercut (not far in power from Foreman's when flush) floors him, then Larry does his usual avalanche-of-rights until the ref stops it.
Wrong yet again! Marciano lost 4 of the first 6 rounds! He was clumsy and dirty in that fight. Life magazine reported: "Trying to knock the challenger out with one punch, the 29-year-old Marciano was over-eager and awkward. He lunged, butted, hit below the belt, on the break and after the bell. Once, he swung so wildly that he missed and slipped clumsily to the canvas. Outboxing the champion and avoiding his blows, LaStarza managed to win four of the first six rounds. In the seventh, Marciano changed his tactics, started aiming at LaStarza's body as well as his head in an attempt to wear the challenger down. He succeeded." Marciano never toyed with anyone who shared ring with him not even his own brother! When Jack Hurley took over Mathews contract he told him," forget about all those meaningless wins out on the coast ,you don't know how to fight yet."
He carried LaStarza for many rounds because he wanted to give him a beating. So the rumor goes. I’ve seen the fight several times and LaStarza May have won an early round or two but there was nothing dominant about it and no one had any doubt about whom would come out on top. Marciano was a slow starter. Probably took him while to gauge distances but he often didn’t win the first round or two. You have some odd opinions. So Marciano wasn’t good enough to toy with anyone who was in the ring with him? Marciano knee he’s wipe the floor w Matthews and the second LaStarza meeting because he knew he was a much better fighter then when they first met.
Whether or not they’re easy to KO is relative. Did you know that Liston went the distance with Whitehurst twice, who got stopped in 1 round by Joe Rowan? That’s why I asked if you’ve compared that stat with any other elite hitters. You isolated Marciano in this regard, and came up with a judgement on him without checking to see if his peers had those same drawbacks. Many great hitters have whiffed and slipped. Louis did it against Attell. This is an overused criticism of Rocky because it falls into the “clumsy” trope. And yes, of course I think having his entire film catalogue would help assessments of him as a fighter. Do I think a select few ATG punchers could match his ratio? Sure, maybe. But matching his ratio would only validate him in that case, so are we comparing him to other boxers or superman? Marciano might not have 50 1 round KO’s on his record, but he beat every fighter in his professional career. Clearly he knew how to use his power to consistently win fights.
That is BS. Lastarza won 4 of the first 6 rds there is no" may" about it! I repeat Marciano never toyed with anyone, he got them out of there as soon as he could.He intended to carry one opponent ,to "get myself a work out" but forgot himself when the guy landed a shot and ko'd him. You need to do some serious research before crticizing my opinions!
I love Rocky, and it kills me to have to say this, but Holmes is too big, too fast and too good for Rocky, Larry by a one sided UD, I can’t see Rocky winning more than 3 rounds
