True or False Foreman is the physically strongest heavyweight champion

Valuev was the biggest champion but he never proved outstanding punching power , for example.

 

Ibeabuchi wasn't champion. Klit ? Wladimir or Vitali? I think the brothers are overrated.Joshua outpowered Wladimir easily.
Vitali couldn't knock out glass chinned fighters like Byrd or the aging Lewis.

 

Sorry, man. I'm not buying that. In my experience, it takes a ton of strength to move a bull around the ring that way (and I was a pretty good wrestler and understood leverage). I can only imagine what it took to control a prime Foreman that way. And if Ali was doing all the steering and controlling, and George was just playing along to conserve energy, then that certainly didn't work. Ali was simply the boss in that fight. He outmanned George.

 

This. With the long history of the heavyweight division saying Foreman was physically the strongest heavyweight champion is a reach and overlooking a lot of past heavyweight champions.

 

I don't recall Joshua having such an easy time against an old Waldo. And most would agree that physical strength does not necessarily translate into punching power. Both K bros were very, very strong, as was Lewis.

 

That's not manhandling though is it?

That's negating an attack using a smart (though illegal tactic) of putting his hand behind the head, ruining Foreman's rhythm and punching range and forcing him to reset. He did the same tactic to Frazier in fight 2 which allowed him to ship a while lot less punishment than the other two fights when he couldn't do this.

It's smart, requires use of angles and leverage (as another poster pointed out) and some strength of course.
But saying he manhandled Foreman when often times he was bulled to the ropes and forced to hold Foreman's head for dear life until George ducked his head to remove the hold and reset to try to hammer Ali again is false.

Ali was definitely the master and in control in Africa but he wasn't the stronger man.

 

I'd have to go with Wladimir Klitschko. The way he bullied Povetkin was unreal. This was a prime Povetkin who's gear was manufactured in the isolated labs of RUSADA. Wladimir also bullied David Haye (same size as Holyfield/Ali). And Wlad didn't need to shove his opponents to show his strength. Not hating on Foreman but some people act like Foreman could carry a 7-Eleven on his back. He was very strong but I don't see anything he did that makes him stronger than all the other HW champions.

 

Then you must not understand that his energy was sapping due to him running into counters all night, punching himself out, etc. He wasn't resisting Ali because his intention was to hit him, not outmuscle him. Ali's intention was to maintain his position and avoid getting nailed.

Your example is very flawed because both guys had completely different intentions. It wasnt an arm wrestling match comparing bicep vs bicep so i dont see how you can look at Ali outmaneuvering and using leverage as an example of him "outmuscling" someone who wasnt using his lifting strength in the first place he was punching.

 

This is silly semantics. Leverage by itself is nothing. Brute strength by itself can be misdirected. You need strength to apply even most advantageous leverage position. And against a bull of a man, you need a lot of strength.

Sorry, man. I've fought, I've wrestled (a lot) and I've lifted for many a decade. I don't buy your interpretation here.

 

Wlad was indeed very strong but the povetkin fight is a bad example. He should have lost points for all the blatant leaning and wrestling.

He lost a point against david haye for leaning and shoving its not beneath him to try and bully his opponents.

What foreman did against frazier was actually brilliant, he wasnt simply showing of his raw strength:

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Everyone who fought or sparred with foreman were in awe of his strength. Stan Ward said he could move you around with one arm:

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Have you done brazillian jiu jutsu? I used to spar with this big stocky cop who took classes with us. Guy had ridiculous arm strength and had a good 30 lbs on me. Due to my superior technique and leverage i outmaneuvered and outfinessed him every single time and he couldn't manage to make me submit. I knew his arms were stronger than mine because i initially tried to just use muscle vs muscle and lost that exchange and changed tactics. Had we been arm wrestling he'd crush me.

Yes you need to have some strength to use "leverage" but when itncomes to wrestling/clinching/etc it's not impossible to outmaneuver someone whose stronger than you. I know that for a FACT.

 

Right, but you're missing the point. Foreman wasn't ACTIVELY trying to push back, he was trying to PUNCH. If I'm trying to punch somebody in a fight, and somebody is trying to kick me.... If I land no kicks, because I'm trying to punch, does that mean he's a better kicker? It could be, but since I'm not trying to kick him, we just don't know. It's like somebody saying Green Bay has the best run defense and the Vikings can't run on them. When the Vikings then use play action to get down the field and score, we don't go... see they COULD run on Green Bay, they scored. Yes the ultimate goal is scoring, or in this case winning, but we can't take something mutual exclusive and make it inclusive because the ultimate goal was reach anyway. As I said, do you honestly believe if Foreman focused on pushing Ali back and wrestling with him when Ali was, do you really think Ali could've bossed the fight as you say? I don't. But either way, the fight they did have, doesn't prove your assertion imo because Foreman wasn't actively playing the same game.

 

Ali manhandled him...jeffries was probably strongest...of course both ali and jeffries would also be lifting if they boxed in the nineties

 

Yeah, once Ali grabbed you and got you in a clinch, there weren’t many who could break out of it. Possibly the greatest of all time when it came to clinching and holding up close. Only Wlad comes close to matching him.

 

The part most people don't get it its easy to man handle a tired opponent. In terms of brute lifting strength / core strength Foreman at 100% rates up there, but was he stronger than Carnera, Jeffries, Lewis, and Wlad?