Cleveland Williams one the best heavyweights never to be champion

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"Would he have had real chances of winning either the WBA, IBF or WBC belt or be undisputed champion?".

That makes your attempt to get away with naming dozens of alphabet titlists MOOT. In actual names you are short of 50 and have named plenty of alphabet titlists.

Williams would be a big chance of beating guys like Snipes, Bruno, Smith (all alphabets) as it is.

 

That is a bit presumptuous because it requires a leap of faith to pick a guy based on how well he did getting knocked out by Sonny Liston. Its not like he could get a win against Terrell or Machen. He never won an important fight!

There is literally about a 3 year window where Williams was able to register at Even a capable/fringe standard before he was gunned down. And even then there are not the wins there to get excited about. Nobody else lists a points win over the obscure billy the barber as a top win..that’s what it comes down to. Talk about scraping the barrel for something.

 

Of course he won important fights. Do you think we are all stupid? You don't sit in the Ring's top 10 for years on end without winning important fights.

You have to try and ridicule Daniels as he is a perfectly legitimate and resounding win by Williams over a top 10 ranked opponent. That you always have to nickname Daniels derogatorily just pinpoints the hate and venom you have for Williams (And Liston and Foreman of course) Miteff is another solid win and the draw with Machen who was the #3 rated heavyweight in the world is nothing to scoff at. Take particular notice that Williams potent power shook the very durable Machen multiple times.

Accolades -

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• Historian Herbert G. Goldman ranked Williams as the 22nd greatest heavyweight of all-time in 1989.
• Williams was inducted into the World Boxing Hall of Fame in 1997.
• The Ring ranked Williams as the 31st greatest heavyweight of all-time in 1998.
• The Ring ranked Williams as the 49th greatest puncher of all-time in 2003.

George Foreman interviewed in retirement described Williams as possessing one of the three hardest punches he had experienced professionally, also stating that he and Williams had been sparring partners in their early careers.

George Chuvalo also said Williams was one of the hardest punchers he had faced in his own professional career.

A Ring Magazine poll once rated him as one of the finest boxers never to win a title.

 

Sylvester Stallone made it into the boxing hall of fame without winning an important fight either.

And yes, Williams did punch hard, so yes it’s fine that he is endorsed for his firepower.

But without decisive wins over major players in the division, outstanding contenders, champions or ex champions, there is no evidence for him being a candidate for “best not to become champion”. Williams simply cannot qualify and it has nothing to do with hatred. Its just the rules.

 

Never mind the hall of fame rubbish did you not see The ring ranked Williams 31 in an all time heavyweight list? Big Herb raked him even better. The ring rated him one of the best fighters never to win a world title which is pretty pertinent to the thread!!!!

 

Tua and Lyle won big fights, Williams resume is very thin.

 

This is true. But it must go down as a blunder for their reputation if they really meant it. Being memorable can be confused with being great. Williams was certainly one of the more Memorable guys. And he did not ever win a title.

I guess Williams is an important part of boxing folklore. He is a big puncher. He was involved in a legendary fight so its easy to get carried away with him. or confused about him.

That’s the only excuse that can be given really.

Williams is certainly memorable. Being a fine fighter is ok. But one of the finest? I don’t think anyone actually means that because it doesn’t stand even very mild scrutiny.

 

On what planet is Williams being called "great"? Planet chok? The funny thing is i can see you taking Williams being seen as one of the better heavies not to win a title as people deeming him "great". It's the level you work on with guys like him, Liston and Foreman. Think about it.

I readily agree people have a sizable tendency to get carried away with huge hitters - Mugabi and 100 others etc

I'd also agree people can get carried away with fine upstanding losses against great fighters - Mugabi, Witherspoon etc

Hell, i'd even agree that Williams can get overrated!

What i would never agree with however is your biased agenda driven lowly appraisal of him. Christ, you even nickname one of the best guys he beat derogatively.

Maybe you should contact Ring and Herb (if alive) and let them know where they are going wrong.

 

Any chance to see Goldman's list? No one I have seen or read, and I have about 50 lists has Williams in their top 25. For Goldman's credibility, I hope he published that before 1970. I suspect he did this well after 1970.

Regarding the World boxing hall of fame that's one of boxing's" other " hall of fames. The most significant boxing hall of fame is the International Boxing Hall of Fame in the State of New York. Williams is not an inductee and likely never will be.

How many wins does he have over opponents in the top ten when he fought them? One or two?

 

That’s where you are wrong. I am actually proud to be a barber myself! Just as my father and grandfather before me were also barbers. I like to promote Billy the barber Daniels nickname precisely because I am myself proud to be a barber.

It is not derogatory to say Billy the barber. Jack Dempsey was managed by a barber. Jack Johnson was a lather boy in a barbershop. There are a lot of barbers in boxing history. My collection of vintage boxing magazines come from the coffee tables from the shops my family owned.

 

I would agree with almost all of these names being better than Williams. The big cat had the chin of a light heavyweight and beat next to no contenders. He's not in the top 20 heavyweights never to win a title. Anyone who thinks differently here doesn't know much about the history of boxing. Your point is proven.

I would however give Cleveland Williams an edge over Maxim, Layne,, Renault and a few others you listed in a head to head sense.

 

There was nothing wrong with Williams's chin. He was never stopped or floored by anyone but Liston when anywhere close to his prime.

 

Check again. Every time he fought a puncher, which was not often he was taken out early.

He was KO'd by Satterfield ( 10 count ) before facing Liston. I also believe he was down in some other fights.

 

When was his prime? He had 30 fights before he was knocked out by 20 pound lighter Bob Satterfield after Sly Jones had already decked him twice in a fight he lost. This was on the undercard if Marciano vs Lastarza. Mike Tyson was already champion by that many fights but we are not allowed to use Thus as Williams prime...

The next guy he fought who could punch was Sonny Liston. predictably He had Williams up and down like a yo-yo. Who was the Next guy williams fought that could punch?

Terrell and Machen are not noted as big punchers. Billy the Barber was not a puncher. Who else is there that could punch a lick before that cop shot him?

People get upset if I mention the period after Williams had been gunned down but that’s the point where he started to meet more guys who could hit.