Jack Johnson vs Joe Frazier

1.I have verified quotes from Johnson stating McVey was his toughest opponent ,you have provided no such quote stating Ketchel was ,as I knew you wouldn't!
2.McVey had 19 fights when he faced Johnson for their 3rd fight.Box Rec
3.You don't see any more fights for Jim Corbett but you told us he had over 50 remember!LOL
4.I don't need to explain anything to you. I told you Johnson is on record as a saying McVey was his toughest opponent and you know I can prove it! You have produced nothing to refute this and you won't!
Now I've easily refuted all your pathetic ,agenda driven crap, do you think you can bring yourself to return to the subject of the thread,or do you need to vent some more Johnson hatred first?
I wonder posters don't complain about you hijacking every thread that involves Johnson , to spit your irrrational venom like some deranged cobra , no matter how remotely connected Johnson may be to the thread!
My serious advice to you is.
GET YOURSELF A LIFE !!!!!

 

Should I put up a clip of Johnson and ask if he resembles Ali?

 

Machen was 34 years old he would have 2 more fights lose them and retire.By no stretch of the imagination was he the same fighter that faced Liston.It took Frazier into the last round to finally wear down the veteran and he was badly shook himself early in the fight. Against Liston, Machen had the legs to keep away from Sonny's power facing Frazier he spent most of the fight pinned on the ropes his legs were too old for him to run..

Machen fought Liston in September 1960 when he was ranked number3 to Liston's number 2.He fought Frazier on my birthday 1966 6 years later he was then unranked and hadn't been for 3 years , spot the difference?lol
Nobody was more stationary against Frazier than Ali in FOTC he spent more than half the fight in the corner or on the ropes.
.Ellis tried to slug with Frazier,bad move for a built up middleweight.
You're going to have to really up your game.you're getting thrashed here without any effort on my part at all!

 

1 ) You need to claim down. It's not my fault your overzealous on Johnson and what you want isn't always true. Read the Johnson vs. Ketecel reports! He said Ketchel was his toughest opponent. He said his jaw was never so sore. ( Quote I provided right after the fight took place ) None of Johnson's fights with Mcvey were tough for him, you idiot! We can read the fight reports. Johnson outclassed him, floored him, and won as he pleases while fighting in spurts. DUH. He was hurt and tested far more vs. Willard, would you agree? Or vs Hart. Or how about this, in your small mind his toughest fight was vs a teenager! Ahahaha, any better? As I said after getting Ko'd by Johnson and losing to Martin on points in 1904, Mcvey QUIT Boxing for a year. That's the guy Johnson beat. A teenager.

2 ) Stop fantasizing about fights there no records of. Who were these opponents for McVey? I asked twice. Duck, Duck, duck.

3 ) I listed the fighters names, and dates for Corbett, you moron! Count em up, and he was 59-0-3 ( using news reports on who won ) just before facing Jackson. Admittedly some were likely exhibitions or short fights, but unlike you sorry self, I have names and dates of who he fought that is not on Box Rec. You do not see the difference?! Quick PM people for help you need it!

4 ) You cannot explain anything. As I told you, Johnson and Mcvey were friends from the same state. ( Texas ) When Mcvey became ill and died, Johnson paid for the funeral charges.

5 ) My advice to you Tony, Mcvey Rainer or Tonto62...whichever personally suits you these days is top defending your wife-beating idol, and interpret the facts. If you can stomach them. Ever wonder why so many here go back and forth with you? It's because of YDKSAB.

Ta-ta!

 

Machen had to have something to last as long as he did vs Frazier. Frazier just put too much pressure on . He forced his opponent to fight back. That was his style, and Frazier had much faster feet than Liston. By the way Machen had just beaten Quarry before facing Frazier.

Eills was a former middle, but he was not as short as the guys Johnson feasted on. And he was heavier than the smaller fighters who gave Johnson trouble!

He didn't floor Frazier, Frazier belt hi out!

But okay, let's stick on the blowup middles for a moment. READ ON. Choynski a super middle Ko'd Johnson! He was out cold.

FACT

Ketchel who was really 155 pounds for Johnson, floored and hurt him, but Johnson's own admission!

FACT

O'Brien who was below the super middleweight limit according to some primary sources was the better. Two of these matches happened in Johnson's absolute prime.

FACT

Do you want to talk more about this? Never have I experienced a person like yourself, takes a beating and thinks he doing well. You are insane. Get help and pick a but house that allows the internet.

The best news for you is I have a wife, wife, kids a very good job, and just don't have the amount of time to sit on a PC all-day, waiting for someone to say something.

 

Johnson was a very skilled fighter. No denying that. Lets judge the film, though.

His parry reliant style, in particular the rear right hand parry and lean, and his upright posture, which he also kept on the inside, is open to guess what... A left hook!

Frazier had a 'pretty goood' left hook, right? And was great at baiting the opening! Combined with his activity rate and his skilled headmovement, he WILL land it. Frazier must worry about the uppercut mostly from Johnson. However, he would not have an abundance of activity to worry about. More like the set up.

I would also go out and assume Frazier is atleast on par, if not better, in physical strength. Combined with his stamina, he could entertain and exit the inside fight if it occurs, and reset.

Frazier would score a later stoppage.

 

I'm perfectly calm ,drinking some home made Ox Tail soup at the moment.
I have multiple Johnson v Ketchel reports ,I've only to open Pollack's books to the appropriate pages ,and I can combine them with,Denzil Batchelor's ,Finis Farr's,Geoffrey C Ward;s and Randy Roberts' ,Johnson bios which I also have.and you don't!
Johnson said McVey was his toughest opponent, I didn't!Lol
You will never produce a verified quote from Johnson saying Ketchel was! I know it ,you know it !
He toyed with Stanley and everyone who knows anything about the fight knows that is the case!
You produced a series of exhibitions that Corbett engaged in and tried to pass them off as real fights to bolster up your hero Jeffries.Three separate posters pointed it out to you at the time.
Both Frank Childs and Hank Griffin were fromTexas neither of them were friends of Johnson's.
I've never been to the," Lone Star State ,"but I imagine it is big enough that two people could not meet or become acquainted unless their work brought them together?lol


Go And Get That LIfe. You Are Boring Everyone With This Compulsive And Toxic Hatred!

 

Ketchel's weight for Johnson was estimated at170lbs, he did not weigh in, that little lie which you have repeated several times wont work I'm afraid.
O Brien did not weigh in for the Johnson fight, another little lie exposed once more! Pollack estimates that Johnson scaled around the same weight as Choynski when they fought and weights for Johnson ether side of this, tend to support his view.
Machen shook Frazier early in their fight I never said he knocked him down,and unlike yourself , I am always happy to provide proof of my claims! So,here it is.

"Machen's best moment came when he staggered Frazier with a left hook in the eighth round."Box Rec.

Now lets examine all these little short guys you say Johnson feasted on. Are you referring to;
McCormick 6' 2.5"
Klondike 6'1"
Ferguson 6'3"
Kennedy 6'2"
Moran6'1"
Griffin 6'1"
Everett 6'. 0.5"
Kaufman 6'1"
Martin 6'3"
Butler 6'.05"
Lester 6'3.5"
Felix 6.3"
Lang 6'1"
Russell 6'3"
Cowler 6'3.5"
Simmons 6'
Jeffords 6'4"
Are these the guys?
When you talk about super middleweights , are you sure you're not getting mixed up with Jim Jeffries opponents?
I know when you get excited the spelling mistakes and typos become more frequent .Judging by your last two efforts you are close to frothing at the mouth!

Which makes it all the more ironic is that you should tell me to calm down! lol.

 

True, but Johnson's uppercut and set up was better than Ali's. Ali's was a wishful thinking punch, and I don't think it would be the same with Johnson

 

Valid point.Guys like Johnson and Holmes were noted for their uppercuts Ali wasn't.

 

That's fair. He was a masterful boxer.

 

It's common knowledge Sonny Liston cleaned out the divison in his pretitle days, but wait? He didn't face Henry Cooper? Or Ingamar? Or Archie Moore? Or Hurricane Jackson?
Then after he wins the title in 1962 Sonny only defends it's 1 time until February of '64. All those contenders were frozen out by this overated myth Sonny Liston.
You can do a hit job on anyone's resume if you spin it hard enough. When you feel the need to do it that is an indicator you don't have a strong argument.

 

Liston beat 7 top ten ranked opponents, in his run up to the title, including the number 1, the number 2 ,and the number 3. Rather different I think?
Frazier? In his run up to unifying with Ellis he faced 4 ranked opponents.
Bonavena in 68, no6,Chuvalo in 67, no8, Ramos in68, no4,Quarry in 69, no6.
Spot the difference?
Contenders were frozen out? Your statement ,okay lets look at that

Lston won the title on 25th Sep1962 he defended it against the number 1 challenger , Patterson on 7th of July 1963 less than 9 months later. He next defended it on the 25th of Feb1964 against the number 1 contender Ali 7 months later.
Moore was only ranked for one year of Liston's time in the top ten 1958 then he fell by the wayside.Jackson was never ranked whilst Liston was.

Spot the difference ? He didnt avoid the number 1,2,3,4,5,6,78,9,10 challengers and defend against 2 unranked no hopers for 2 years, less a month and a half!
He fought the number 1challenger in each defence! Prior to his unification with Ellis ,Frazier never fought a guy ranked higher than no 4.and only 1 ranked higher than 6!
That's the bottom line,anyway you slice it!

 

What we have to remember, is Jack Johnson was no wishy washy flake of a fighter. He came along in hard times and faced various styles of boxers. If we take the experienced Johnson, at his best and confident with it, then Frazier isn't just blowing him away imo, no way. Put Joe back in Johnson s day, have him fight the same guys that Johnson faced time and time again and in very hostile times I ll add and then throw them together. Jack had one of the tougher routes to the title, he was no snowflake..

 

He was able to launch an offense against a 6-3 Ali with a 79" reach who fought off his toes and glided the ring. Besides Johnsons' physical shortfallings in comparison to Ali, his stance doesn't allow him to particularly move very well. Joe closed the distance with deception and abandon. He was quick to the target. Watching film of both, I have no doubt that Frazier lands early and often.