Jack Johnson vs Joe Frazier

He had to with Joe on him every second

 

So we should disregard the opinions of Eddie Futch, Dan Daniel ,Charley Rose, Nat Fleischer?
That is of course unless they are being complimentary towards Jim Jeffries! lol

 

That's not the point, if joe was slow he wouldn't be able to catch Ali

 

I think he was lacking in ring rounds and didn't trust either his stamina or his legs.

 

If a fighter retreated to the ropes/corners ,you dont have to be fast to engage with him do you ! WTF?
And I never suggested Frazier was slow,quite the contrary!

 

1.You haven't seen the Johnson v O Brien fight.
2.O Brien was 31 the same age as Johnson.
3.Nobody gave the 6 rounder to O Brien.

4.I never said Ketchel weighed in at170lbs, in fact I specifically said he did not weigh in, but that his weight was estimated at170lbs,
here is my post.
"Ketchel's weight for Johnson was estimated at170lbs, he did not weigh in",
5.This of course proves your assertion that Ketchel weighed 155lbs is total BS!
6. I'd take Pollacks diligent research over your irrational hatred every day of the week and twice on Sundays!
7.I named 17 fighters who Johnson fought some of them multiple times,all were contenders during his era,and all were over 6 foot! Thisof course proves your statement that he feasted on shorter smaller guys to be completely false.
8.The average weight of Johnsons challengers was the highest until Joe Louis' reign.
9.I said Sam McVey,at 5'11" 205lbs and being a noted left hooker was probably the nearest facsimile to Joe Frazier that Johnson faced
and I stand by that.
9.. This thread is about who would win a fight between Johnson and Frazier!
10.Ten months before he fought Choynski, Johnson scaled 168lbs to fight Jim McCormick ie super middleweight!
11.Johnson fought Choynski on the 290th April1900 his next confirmed weight after the McCormick fight which was on the 20th of April1900 ,[168lbs] was In October 1902 to fight George Gardner he scaled 185lbs for that fight. The time elapsed is 2 years and 6 months.

12. Do the OP the courtesy of addressing that subject at hand and confine your hatred of Johnson to any threads that you might wish to make !
I've tried to present both positives and negatives for both fighters in the thread and haven't even made a pick!
By contrast. This is how you are viewed here.
"Mendoza is mental regarding Johnson. No one takes him seriously on that topic."Seamus.

"Note that Mendoza no longer makes outlandish claims about Flynn and Moran doing well .against Johnson."Houdini

On Jack Johnson,you are the standing joke of the Forum.

 

You think Ali wanted the ropes and corners or was it because Joe was tiring him with his aggression.. The original point I made was to another poster about Joe being slow on his feet(I know hes not), you replied !

 

Or Joe was intense to the point he needed his breather. He had just had 15 with Bonavena and stopped Quarry, he knew his tank range imo

 

I can't buy you folks new eyeballs. If you can't see the quickness and elusivemss of Frazier closing the gap against the fastest and slickest heavy who ever entered a ring then we must be living on different planets.

 

Tonto62, post: 20113844, member:
Mcvey/Raier/Tonot 62 says:

1.You haven't seen the Johnson v O Brien fight.
2.O Brien was 31 the same age as Johnson.
3.Nobody gave the 6 rounder to O Brien.

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Tontos62 says I never said Ketchel weighed in at170lbs, in fact I specifically said he did not weigh in, but that his weight was estimated at170lbs,
here is my post.
"Ketchel's weight for Johnson was estimated at170lbs, he did not weigh in",

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Tonto62: This of course proves your assertion that Ketchel weighed 155lbs is total BS!

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Tonto62 I'd take Pollacks diligent research over your irrational hatred every day of the week and twice on Sundays!

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Tonto63: The average weight of Johnsons challengers was the highest until Joe Louis' reign.

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Tonto62 says: I said Sam McVey,at 5'11" 205lbs and being a noted left hooker was probably the nearest facsimile to Joe Frazier that Johnson faced
and I stand by that.

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Tomto62 This thread is about who would win a fight between Johnson and Frazier!

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Tonto62.Ten months before he fought Choynski, Johnson scaled 168lbs to fight Jim McCormick ie super middleweight!

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Here is Sam McVea closing the gap against a guy with a dozen fights who had won 4 of his last 10....

https://gph.is/g/4wPo6Vw

Here is Joe closing the gap against the greatest heavyweight who ever lived...

https://gph.is/g/amAbjjy

 

Virtually identical.

 

It was Frazier's consistant, relentless pressure that made Ali take a rest for pockets of the fight. He was walking through everything Ali threw and landed. Joe makes you fight for 3 minutes a round.
Ali was sharp and fast in FOTC. Not many could have withstood the peppering he gave Frazier in the early going especially.
In all 3 of their fights Ali went to the ropes in the midrounds to rest. He had no choice. He learned some tactics that helped him blunt Joe's offense 'grabbing behind the head and pulling Frazier in'.
He paid to learn though that first fight Joe was a steamroller.

 

Frazier was toying with Mathis by the midway point. He was smiling and taunting Buster. Perhaps revenge for the Olympic Trials. He was punishing him at the same time talking to him.
Even young George Foreman recalled watching that fight and hoping Joe Frazier "died first" rather than have to challenge him.
Frazier's performance against Mathis made it seem "being big didn't mean anything at all" according to George Foreman.
I do agree that he wasn't a "monster" puncher. He doesn't have alot is 1 punch KOs. He did have power in that left. He broke Chuvalo's eye socket inside 3 rounds. Later in his career broke Larry Holmes ribs.
He stopped alot of good fighters with his combination of power and pressure as well as a high volume offense.
From 1966-73 who went the distance with him? Bonevena and Ali. Muhammad had to get off his back to do it.

 

Born to rumble forward and take out his opposition, Joe was an excellent blend of aggression power speed, the perfect pressure fighter imo