Jack Johnson vs Joe Frazier

The New York paper did not have a reporter present.
All you know about this fight is what you have read on Box Rec whereas I have the round by rounds summary from a dozen papers Spot the difference?
O Brien did not weigh in for this fight and neither did Johnson so the weight you have given is just plain BS!
My point on Ketchel is proven by my earlier post ,no need to repeat it.
When you state,clealry unequivocally [twice] that neither fighter weighed in and the weights were estimated,there is obviously no attempt to present your statement as a fact!
Only someone who has proven reading comprehension difficulties, as you clearly do, would attempt to state otherwise!i

Pollack's reputation as a boxing boiographer is second to none.His grounding in the sport,the actual nuts and bolts is also thorough ,he is a licensed judge and referee,and has boxed himself .HE KNOWS BOXING!
You made the statement that Johnson feasted on shorter smaller opponents ,in reply I gave you 17 of his opponents that were over 6ft there is simply no refuting this!
Johnson;s next confirmed weight after the McCormick fight for which he weighed 168lbs fight was 2 years and 6 months later when he fought George Gardner this is in Box Rec and again is undeniable and unarguable!
As to Choynski's power.The following fighters stated he hit them the hardest
Jim Jeffries
Tom Sharkey
Bob Fitzsimmons
Jack Johnson.
I've produced their verified quotes on this forum several times ,so no need to do so again.
Enough said!
You mentioned Klompton ? Not a wise move on your part, we all know his opinion of you!
he has called you racist ,biased and ,on several occasions a liar!
Again simply undeniable!

In closing may I say you are past the realms of being comically biased and predictable on Jack Johnson.
You are now officially deranged on the subject! A complete laughing stock,whom as Seamus accurately stated, nobody takes seriously on the subject of Jack Johnson!
I repeat I have made no pick here and have presented both positive and negative aspects of each fighters game.
Here is an example of my comments on this thread.

"The problem with anyone picking Johnson here is we don't know how he would cope with the work rate and intensity of Frazier's attack because, as far as is known, he never experienced it.
Would he be able to smother and render harmless the relentless,one could say almost frenzied ,onslaught that Joe mounted against Ali in FOTC? A ring rusty Ali had a night mare trying to do so and was out on his feet in the 11th round.
Ali's defence was based on reflex and movement, both were dulled in FOTC.
Johnson's defence was based on anticipation and the ability to parry and block punches before they landed,he was supreme at this, but he wasnt having to contain and deflect bunches of salvoes at a time.
Frazier at his best had the ability to throw his hook with power and accuracy all night , and his most priceless asset was he could fire it and reload instantly to repeat the process.Trying to smother such an attack would seem like trying to hold mercury in your hands for a fighter used to fielding a much more methodical and therefore predictable attack."

Here is another.

"It's perfectly understandable that posters would pick Frazier over a fighter whose best days were over a century ago,maybe its the correct pick,but Johnson wasn't some hype job, he was forged in the fire and used to adversity.
This might be a real tough fight for both men."
Another.
"We know that Johnson could handle bigger ,heavier men, what is rather an unknown is how he copes with Frazier's frentic work rate?"
And yet another in response to JohnThomas's comment.
JohnThomas1 said: [url]↑[/url]
Frazier would slowly grind him down for mine.
My reply...
"It's certainly a plausible scenario."
These responses from me I believe demonstrate I am open- handed and reasonable in my approach to this subject.

That is called being unbiased and objective, two words that have never been even remotely used in connection with you!

 

Joe was done with serious boxing after the FOTC. Just read an interview with Futch talking about trying to stop Joe from partying in Jamaica. Joe would ask to go out for 10 minutes to check out a party. Eddie would find him hours later on stage singing and drinking. In retrospect his body was never built to be a long-term champ but he was still the best heavy in the world for 4 or so years.

 

A voice of sanity. I will never understand the short shrift Joe gets while lesser, less accomplished fighters are beatified. Maybe it's just the way the pendulum of opinion swings.

 

Tonto62/ Rainer/ Mcvey I'm done with you for now. What's the point in correcting you?! You don't address fact or what I say, you just keep spinning away hoping for junk that might stick.

You said no one scored it for O'Brien. Liar. I showed two quick examples. For shame.

You're still trying to compare Sam Mcvey to Joe Frazier! Hilarious! No one agrees with that.

And you say constantly say Jeffries fought small guys then accidentally list guys you are calling big ( to prop up Jack Johnson ). The only problem is Jeffries not only fought the " big guys " you listed " he did much better in comparison to Johnson who fought the same opponents. FUNNY!

You're a sad joke, and by all means, ask Klompton what Ketchel's weight was vs. Johnson. If he chooses to reply, he will say much lower than 170. 155 is what he said before.

I'll let the rest of the board take a turn at our resident punching bag.

Or maybe I'll just archive your hilarious opinions and falsehoods, and build up a list and just copy and past it at a later date to shut you down

A theory. If you have any shame, it might prevent future BS from you. Then again, you're so full of it you have flush handles for ears.

 

As usual you never address the corrections and deliberate lies of yours that I continually expose,all we get is a litany of insults.
As Seamus stated.

"Mendoza is mental regarding Johnson. No one takes him seriously on that topic!"

 

Two years avoiding your ranked challengers and defending against unranked third raters tends to stick in my craw and somewhat dilutes his achievements .imo.
Five fights against 2 greats,final result = won1 lost 4.

 

Yes he was and my fav Heavy ever.. A very honest man !

 

One question for those dismissing out of hand Johnson's chances.
I think Eddie Futch is as good as it gets , both as a trainer and as a strategist.
If you agree with that ,how do you square it with his stated opinion that the three greatest heavyweights of all time are,in no order.
Joe Louis,Jack Johnson,Muhammad Ali?

 

Looking at Frazier post-FOTC is a bit like looking at Duran post-Leonard 1. Not an exact analogy of course. Consider that he has 7 career victories over the 1969's Top Ten Heavies. 9 over those ranked in 1968. 8 over those ranked in 67.

He was never built for longevity but he was on top for about as long as Marciano, Tyson, or really, Dempsey (minus the lay-offs). Sometimes you must judge the intensity of the flame rather than the duration.

 

Greatness is a vague and loaded qualification. Head to head is more precise.

It can be argued that Johnson was the Greatest heavyweight ever, if your criteria are correctly precise. And I wouldn't really have an argument against that.

 

I think Frazier;s deterioration after FOTC is very exaggerated.His performance against Foreman is held up as evidence he was physically impaired
I don't buy this," shell of what he was," crap, he lost to Foreman because stylistically Foreman was an absolute nightmare for Joe .That and the fact that he had shied away from putting himself in with ranked contenders for two years he had gone back but that was his fault, not that of the FOTC. Frazier was good enough to beat ranked contenders 4 years after the FOTC,he looked much the same against Quarry in their second fight as he had in their first imo.
Frazier was good enough to give Ali life and death in Manila over 4 and half years after FOTC!

Whilst Frazier was singing with his band to poor audiences Ali was fighting contenders. Joe's choice.
Frazier entered the ratings in 66, among those ranked fighters he missed whilst a leading contender are;
Bodell
Liston
Cooper
Mildenberger
Folley
Terrell
Patterson
Martin
Lewis
Jones
Corletti
Garcia
Peralta
Spencer
Those he missed in his three years title tenure include
Foster
Lyle
Roman
Patterson
Bodell
Norton
Bugner
Urtain

 

Great clips. Joe was the closest to a highly skilled super swarmer the Heavyweight division had ever seen.

 

Don't let Marciano fans catch you saying that...

 

Marciano was the closest to a power punching swarmer the division had seen. Frazier more skilled. Rocky more hurtful IMO.

 

I'd say this is spot on

I'd say that Ike would be the closest thing to a Physical Swarmer the division ever saw.