Douglas' weight vs Holyfield

If I remember correctly Douglas was 230 or 231 lbs in the Tyson fight, but he was also fighting an animal in Holyfield, who was in impeccable shape and it was obvious that Douglas did no road work, since he had no spring or strength in his legs even at the start of the fight.

That said it wasn't just weight, but also his mindset going into the fight. Douglas went into the fight against Holyfield coming off an eating binge and didn't intend to fight ever again, since he was getting a $24 million purse, which was record breaking back then. Douglas didn't care about the fight and just wanted his payday and it showed. Douglas went into the Holyfield with the same attitude and conditioning that Stiverne went into the Wilder rematch, since both showed zero interest in trying to win . They both just showed up and did the bare minimum to get paid.

 

It was a big deal because dedication and disipline were areas that Buster Douglas had problems with throughout his career. Physically he was virtually the perfect heavyweight. 6-4 230lbs with speed, coordination and good enough power. He had good boxing skills as well.
His weight was a huge red flag that his head wasn't right.

 

Bingo. His weight used to mirror his condition (both physical and mental quite often) and training camp.

 

Lead up to the fight he talked unmotivated. He also claimed he was in legal issue with King, but that shouldn't impact his diet. I agree with the consensus, he showed up for the check.

 

I was so disappointed. The Tyson version of Douglas against Holyfield would have produced a great fight and I think Douglas could have gotten the decision in a close fight. To me it wasn't so much the weight - It was obvious that Douglas did little or no serious training and wasn't motivated. At least Bowe in the second fight with Holy did some training and definitely came to fight although he was overweight (many think he did well enough to at least gotten a draw).

 

Precisely. A lot has changed in boxing. Even since then. It was starting then though.

Back then weight was linked to how much a heavyweight had trained. It was easier to identify. Heavyweights are big men naturally built more for strength than they are for stamina. There was a tipping point where boxing is too hard to do if the big guy was not trim enough. To achieve the right balance of stamina and strength for boxing usually no visible excess weight can be observed on a good fighter. And traditionally a lot of roadwork was thought to keep this under control.

The required amount of cardio to develop enough stamina for a big guy to operate as well as smaller men naturally built for longer distances meant they usually couldn’t afford so much excess weight. Some coaches don’t like Heavyweights running as far as smaller guys. But historically people would say a guy coming in looking heavy had skipped roadwork. And that was considered vital to performing at all.

A fighter was not expected to perform as well if he looked to be carrying excess weight. So fans were more obsessed with what was a good weight for particular heavyweights as a prediction to how they will perform.

But all that changed with PEDs.

The layman can no longer look at a body and say “that guy is in no shape to fight”. Those days are over.

 

The joke (and many a true word said in jest) was that Douglas' training for the fight consisted of sitting in the sauna eating pizza...

 

At The Canastota HOF BBQ, we both got to the front of our lines same time (2). One piece of chicken was left. I kid you not, he literally looked at me.
What could I say other than..."well I guess we know who gets the last piece huh?"

He laughed & @the same time they came with a fresh batch, he offered me the first piece. OK, not a gr8 story, but U had to have been there to see the look on his face as I reached for the final drumstick.

 

he did.

remember all those pre-fight rumors back then? I do.

The bills for room service and stuff Douglas was running up at Steve Wynn's hotel. And that was a time when Wynn was trying to compete with the big powers and become a force in the sport. But Douglas had a lot to do to get down to 246.

In the other corner was Holyfield. You knew he'd be in top shape for his first heavyweight title bout. And lots of folks--just like today--buy into the weight descrepency thing was a real significant measurement. So Buster had about 30 pounds on the guy & here was Evander a former cruiser champ.

But he was a great cruiser and had a ton of champiobship pedigree. And staying power. Just how much of that did Douglas ever show? Let alone a big factor to me anyway=====the initial time Evander was going to fight for the heavyweight title, he was going to be a very difficult guy to beat.

 

Holyfield was ready that night and would have beaten Douglas even if he was the same one that turned up in Tokyo.

 

Maybe, but he was ready for Bowe I and lost that fight. Overall how much worse (if at all) was Tokyo Douglas than Bowe I ?

 

Nah. Bowe was a mystery to Holyfields team. Unlike Douglas they didn't know how good he really was and thats why they got their preparations for Bowe all wrong. They were prepared for the Tokyo Douglas.

 

You are so correct! Bowe was a completely unknown unranked fighter who mysteriously fell out of the sky to fight Holyfield! It wasn't fair, in fact I would say it was one of the greatest boxing injustices of all time. Holyfield had absolutely no advanced warning that Bowe was a very skilled big man who could infight but also fight at long distance. If Holy had fair warning I'm sure he could have taken Bowe out in 2-3 rounds. And no doubt whatsoever if Holyfield could have fought Bowe 1 or 2 more times he could have easily beaten him.

 

These are very good points Choklab.
A great HW could have a few extra lbs. around his middle when not so young, & if like Ali & Holmes not that bulky overall, might still have excellent stamina. But that is all that would be OK to have.

PEDs & mucho holding allowed shifted the balance so that what should have been required, the potential to go the at least shortened 12 round distance, was no longer so important!

Also: memory did serve, Douglas was 231 in Tokyo, not 233. [url]https://www.upi.com/Archives/1990/02/10/Tempers-flare-at-Tyson-Douglas-weigh-in/9076634626000/[/url]

But even that 15 lbs. weight gain does not service to represent how much fat Buster had gained.
Why? He was lazy in training for Holyfield. And if he somehow lost little or no muscle early in the camp-if he did enough to maintan homeostasis...

The rapid weight loss before the bout almost certainly would have made him catabolic/in starvation mode, especially during the demands of training, & stripped some muscle off too.

So he actually gained something more than 15 lbs. of blubber.