Monzon on Netflix.

It is funny, guys like Bowe,Kovolov, Liston, and Mike Tyson were all jail birds, but everyone considers them God like, even Floyd Mayweather, who slaps his wife around, is idolized. But Carlos Monzon was not like these dopes like today, he was not a loudmouth, a cheap copycat of Ali, he let his dukes do the talking in the ring. I do not like his actions outside the ring, but that his business, not mine or yours. Look at Duran, punching an opponents mother after a fight, or saying if he was in better shape, he would send Ray Lampkin to the morgue. It is because he talks, and everybody loves his style. He stayed on too long, and became a punching bag for others. There are others that judge Carlos, you know who you are, I am sure you do not walk on clouds, or you just do not like him because you walk around and think you are another kind. Monzon retired as champion, so did Mayweather, and he beats his wife and kids.

 

The fact the he's a murderer is "his business?" Seriously?

For the record, I don't like Mayweather or Lamotta either. Or Duran, really.

 

Murder is not okay, but people like Tyson fondling a woman, is that okay? Liston committing robbery, and putting a police officer upside down in a dumpster, after assaulting him, that okay? Both served their time in prison, already been judged by the law, not you or I. Same with Carlos Monzon, he was Judged guilty by the law, went to prison, as he should have. But boxing was his business, winning fights. So Liston beating up police officers, is his profession, or Tyson committing domestic violence and **** against women is his profession. Murder is worse, but the other actions are still a crime. Crushed Can Kovolov commits assault, and fans are crying the blues for him, making excuses for him, he was a flash in the pan, assault is a crime. You and I are not law judges, but we are boxing fans, and we should look at the fighters skills, not personal life. I liked Salvador Sanchez, as a fighter, but according to his manager, the night Sanchez was killed, he was on his way to see his mistress, not a crime. Cheating on your wife is morally wrong, but I consider him a great boxer.

 

I'll look at them in any way I see fit, thank you. I don't need anyone else to tell me what to judge and what not to judge. I'll judge anyone who harms anyone else out of the ring and happily think less of them for it. If someone has a problem with that, they're free to have a problem.

Why are you assuming I am somehow championing the likes of Liston or Tyson or Kovalev? I don't give two you-know-whats about any of them, and do think less of them as people for the things I've heard and read they did. Read my list of favorite fighters here through the years, I am nothing if not consistent in what I say.

 

Yeah this is a straw man argument. Nobody is saying Monzon wasnt a good fighter because he was a murderer and a woman beater. You are acting like our appreciation of him as a boxer should extend to every aspect of his career and you are drawing comparison's to men who didnt murder anyone and frankly who nobody here is championing. Not one single person mentioned anything negative about Monzon until Red Cobra came on here, in a thread talking about a ten part dramatic series of Monzon's life, bitching and complaining about people discussing the murder which nobody had done in this thread prior to that. Period. He literally created the argument out of whole cloth. Then he compared Monzon murdering a woman to Duran's quit job against Leonard, which is asinine in the extreme. But hey, since the door has been opened on the discussion Im going to step in and paint my name on the wall. If there is a ten hour long docudrama on Monzon's life it'd be beyond stupid, and frankly revisionist, not to address the elephant in the room of his abuse of women and eventual murder and resulting prison sentence which ultimately lead to, you know, HIS DEATH. Sorry but if you cant admit that you are a moron who spends too much time in his moms basement. If you love Monzon, only want to appreciate his boxing style, and dont want anyone to hurt your fragile sensibilities by mentioning a major plotline of his life then maybe you shouldnt be watching a ten hour docudrama on him and should stick to films of his fights. Just a suggestion.

 

Now this is getting heated!

 

I am going to fair and honest the best I can .I know you are boxing historian and I know you know more about boxing than most here... But when it comes to Monzon .. We all know how you feel about him. Over rated, " slow and lumbering", ducked Valdez as his mandatory, which he did and paid the price, whatever … But tbh when a thread comes up about Monzon, you are the first to jump on him about the murder and everything else about him "outside" the ring .. So let's be clear about that .. Now "in the ring" , you feel he is over rated , which is fine and your opinion as we all have our opinions on fighters who we think are over rated ,, but make no mistake about Red who has never condoned about what Monzon did in '88, his posts are about Monzon the boxer in the ring … And if people want to think that Monzon is a unique case in the sports world and single him out, then they have a lot to learn about Sports and the world in general ….Again, you should be, with all your knowledge and a historian, an example for separating in the ring and out of the ring

 

But this isn’t a thread about his boxing abilities or even his boxing career. It’s a thread about a movie on his life story. And as we all know, he was a real low life who did some horrible things during his life. Seems like a fair time to mention them, especially after one of his most devoted fans introduced the topic of the murder and then inadvertently trivialized the horrible crime by likening it to another fighter quitting during a boxing match.

I completely understand why a lot of posters object when those who revile Monzon for being a woman killer interject his personal failings into threads on his boxing career, but that doesn’t seem to be the case here. What am I missing?

 

Wtf have I missed?

 

Anyway I've actually been watching the series and I'm four episodes in .. of course it's framed by the murder which is why the thing was produced in the first place as a dramatic series instead of an hour doc .. that said it is actually pretty good and I'm a guy that usually hates this sort of take .. I've always been fascinated by Monzon and frustrated by the lack of information I could get on the man , partially because I don't read or speak Spanish .. the show seems to fill in some very interesting information that might not be airbrushed fabrication ... in addition, because it has been released there seems to be a small but growing rebirth of old articles on the man .. it is still frustratingly thin but better than it has been ... One interesting point is in the series there is indications that many people in Luna Park who saw the fight felt that Briscoe outpointed Monzon in there first fight and was robbed .. they showed black and white footage of what they claimed to be the bout but it was brief .. I am wondering if footage of that bout exists or did they just use fragments of the title bout .. all said this is an interesting film for Monzon fans for sure .. I'm digging it.

 

Here's my view.

This series portrays the life story of Monzon; his actions inside and outside the ring. Therefore he should be judged here fully as a man, not just a fighter. Simple.

 

There is a lot of violence out there. Boxing is filled with both violent men and men who grew up in impoverished environments .. I don't know enough about Monzon in hard detail to say he was a monster his whole life or a man from a violent world with a propensity for violence when drinking in an event that got especially out of hand .. for scale keep in mind many, many of our most famous fighters were known to hit women from Sullivan , Johnson, Louis, Ali, Robinson and many others .. were they all monsters ? Maybe to some degree.

 

But I wasnt the first to jump on him about his murder. Thats the fallacy here. You monzon nuthuggers came on here with an argument that hadnt been made by anyone. Furthermore, and more to the point, this isnt a thread about his boxing ability. Its a thread about a ten hour dramatic series about his life. So the idea that any of his fans would be sore about a mention of his murder in regards to the story of his life is ridiculous. Yet you are going to lecture me about separating my appreciation or lack thereof of his exploits in the ring from those outside of it? Get real. Maybe instead of defending a murderer because you like his boxing you should just accept that some people A. Dont like his boxing and B. Dont like that he was a wife beating murderer and that when a ten hour series is mentioned if you make a post defending him against denigration of his murder without anyone having mentioned it then you may be inviting criticism. Just a thought.

 

Fair enough.. but I clearly stated this is the same theme with Monzon by some in ALL of his threads .. which has nothing to do with in the ring boxing .. that's my point

 

Next we'll be throwing each other off balconies.


No, wait...……...that would be wrong.