Liston vs Frazier

For the record I don't think neither Frazier nor Liston were lacking in the chin department. As a matter of fact I think both were among the best in history.

 

Sonny was not “very possibly” nearly 50 when Leotis knocked him out a year before Liston died. Nothing supports Liston being that kind of age.

Obviously there is some confusion but There is strong evidence Sonny was born in 1930 making him about 12 years younger than 50 at that time..certainly no older than usual for champion fighters near the end.

Sonny still quite potent to be fair ...right till the end. Had Wepner been stopped on cuts when he should have Sonny would have registered a respectable early stoppage win in very his last fight.

 

Quarry was never an ATG puncher and imo, neither was Frazier.

 

You don't dispute the rest of his post, I trust? You incessantly bang on about Frazier being diminished at 29 yet Listonm who was almost certainly over 40 is still pretty potent? Hypocrisy!

 

Frazier went to the hospital for a couple of weeks after the fight, his face looked like he had shoved it into a bees nestif ali wasn't catching him it must have been Mercante hitting him!

ps Frazier never beat a prime Ali! We never saw him!

 

Williams hit harder than Frazier, that's my point.

 

surprised how many would pick Frazier here. General public I’d assume would pick Frazier a lot . But my thinking is Liston is all wrong for frazier

 

He was a more devastating proposition than either Dejohn or Williams since jerry was both a genuine knockout puncher in his own right at top class.

 

There is no certainty at all that Liston ever reached 40.

 

What's your best guess over 40 or not?

 

Quarry couldn't hit as hard as Cleveland Williams and anyone saying otherwise is either;
1.A fool .
2.Not being honest.

 

Williams never landed anywhere near the frequency of power blows that Frazier did against top tier men. Against key players in the division Williams just could not budge them. On film Terrell traded with williams openly. I doubt Ernie would last the distance against Frazier or win an exchange with the peak Frazier.

Frazier was therefore many times more deadly proposition than Williams was.

 

If Ernie Shavers hitting harder than Mike Tyson makes him such a big deal why did he lose to Ron stander?

It is the same with Williams. Only there isn’t any film of Williams beating anyone any good by knockout. He has no signature knockout win on film Against a good fighter. Zilch.

So whether he hit harder than Frazier is either:

1. A shot in the dark based on gym rumours.
2. Irrelevant in the face of Joe Frazier practically beheading Jimmy Ellis And Bob Foster in real fights anyone can view.

 

The 1940 census eliminates guessing because on it Sonny is officially listed as 10 years old.

 

It has never been established that Helen Liston knew exactly when Sonny was born.