Liston vs Frazier

Please tell me this isn’t about the legend of Mike Bruce! It was the second professional fight! Fraser didn’t start out as a polished finished product.

 

But it's OK to mention Marty Marshall whom Liston fought in his 7th fight? And whom didn't even knock Liston down despite Choklab's blatant lies and attempts to discredit Liston? OK I see.

 

DeJohn,Valdes,Williamsx2,Bethea,Clark,McMurray,Lincoln,Moore,Rush,Besmanoff,Zech,Wepner.

 

Ali couldn't have knocked Joe down if they fought 10 times. He was just dirt tough.

 

Ok, why go down a flawed logic rabbit hole? The outcome has 0 probative value.

 

Marshall was not credited by the General public for knocking Liston down only you.

 

Most likely and very possibly are 2 different things. Especially with so much confusion about Liston's Age.

The vast majority of those at ringside disagree. Liston was noted as having excellent durability. Officers would break nightstands over his head in attempts to subdue him only to have no effect. He would also relish from eating clean punches from Williams, Dejohn an other hard punchers which would've knocked anyone else out in those times. That's why nobody bought that "KD". And rightfully so.

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as you can see (well maybe not you but everybody else) at 19:38 Martin hits Liston with a vicious right then follows it up with a left and another vicious right. So no it was not a single punch. Nice underhanded attempt at discredited Liston tho. Nobody does it like you.

 

But Sonny generally was beating up on guys smaller and lighter than he was. From 54 fights, 48 times Sonny was the heavier man.

I would say the man generally beat up on smaller men if only 6 times from 54 fights Sonny was the lighter man.

 

The ringsiders were rightly disappointed that their expectations were not met. A bizarre, terribly handled bout where the fight starts again and is called off because a ringsider decided Sonny had been down longer than 10 seconds having not received a count. So yes they were angry. most missed the punch and had hoped the fight could continue. it did continue only to be called off. But Ali, Fleischer and Walcott created an absolute farce preventing an acceptable conclusion.

all champions have decent durability. But there is no denying that Sonny could be hurt. The slow motion of the knockdown against Ali shows that the connection was worthy of a flash knockdown in the second fight. The 3rd round of the first fight also shows Clay had Sonny do the chicken dance.

It seems all good fighters relished eating clean punches from Dejohn and Williams since Dejohn and Williams have no signature knockout wins over good class fighters.

Those who view the slow motion replay buy the knockdown. They don’t buy the knockout.
The “knockout” is a separate issue.

Concentration only on the knockdown footage is something ringsiders we’re not privy to.

Most everyone buys the knockdown footage because it is a knockdown.

They don’t buy the knockout because it is clear that Sonny was playacting until he received a count while Walcott was trying to restrain Ali from prancing around doing his “kids from fame” impression.

 

Wonderful post.

 

I'm feeling @klompton2's post as well. Liston was at times a fearsome fighter on a par with Mike Tyson (though not quite as high ranked an ATG imo). But Frazier would have chopped him down, despite probably getting knocked down once (conceivably twice).

 

I'm trying to conceive of a hurt Joe Frazier getting off the mat and going at Liston again and surviving,,,,nope ain't happening .

 

He'd done it before.

 

Sonny ain't George Chuvalo

 

Many have requested a contemporary news clipping of this KD. None have ever been forthcoming.