Oh please! He fought the most qualified challengers, whatever their age/style happened to be. Wilder avoids the most dangerous challengers, unless it is virtually unavoidable to fight them!
If that makes you feel better, then I won't deny it. The fact remains that you are trying to pick holes in Marciano's opposition, when Wilder is clearly in a much weaker position on that issue!
I said boxrec is not always accurate when it comes to height and little details and wikipedia just copies whats out there - it is a task keeping all those records so I don't hold it against them, however, I don't know if you watched the Charles fight? or the Valdes fight vs Satterfield - the point is you can check boxrec, then check Charles height and Valdes height and make a determination for yourself on how tall Satterfield is and let me know what you think. I know Bob Satterfield was 5'10 because there was a large size difference when he ko'd 31-1 6'3 Cleveland Big Cat Williams in 3rds As far as destroy - Satterfield destroyed Nino Valdes chances of getting a title shot vs Marciano by winning pretty wide and dropping Nino in the 10th- Archie Moore and Charles had already beaten the 4men who beat Nino in 52-53 and then Archie beat Nino again for the elimination - because Archie was the 175 lb Champ the ratings at heavyweight didnt list him but Archie also beat Bob Baker who was #1 for a while and Harold Johnson.- everyone knew Archie was the most deserving challenge for Marciano- Satterfield was also stopped by Charles-Moore and Rex Layne (another good fight where you can actually see Layne a few inches taller than Satterfield you will find the facts on the internet or in the films if you believe your own eyes here is an article below about Big Cat- there is a picture of Big Cat getting stopped by Satterfield - note the height difference https://www.boxingoverbroadway.com/...eavyweight-the-tragedy-of-cleveland-williams/ This content is protected
There is a difference between age and past their prime. For example, Archie Moore was older, but as he showed post Marciano that he was far from finished. Walcott boxed and moved too well in the first fight to be considered a shot old man. And Charles for the first fight was in fine condition. LaStarza wasn't close to old either. I would say Rocky's chin, stamina and heart is far more proven then WIlder's who was once dropped by a nobody on the way up and Ko'd badly by a tier two russian in the amateurs. The guys Marciano fought were also more skilled. A fighter can only fight whos in his era. Rocky did aside form maybe one opponent for a very small window of time. By contrast, Widler hasn't beaten anyone who can be viewed as a top 5 fighter during his alphabet championship tenure, which after ten fights, is rather pathetic. How many body shots did he take vs Ortiz? I doubt it was many. We agree Wilder has no inside game, Rocky does and put himself into position to use his shorter arms to his advantage. Was Rocky elusive? Not really. He had fundaments and cloud slip and duck punches form better skilled fighters. Is Wilder accurate? No. Doe he has an inside game? No? Does he good left hand? No. He's limited fighter who for the most part needs the right range to deliver his bomb. Even small guys like Szpikla was even with Wilder until KO'd. A no name like Washington was out boxing him. He was pretty much every with Duhaupas, who gave him a black eye and was in the fight until Wilder landed his bomb. None of these guys were punchers like Rocky was, had an inside game or forded their opponent to work hard.
Walcott was a 38 year old with 70+ fights who never fought again. Those are sufficient facts to prove he was at the end of the line. If you watch the first bout, you see that Marciano never caught up to him until old Joe's legs betrayed him, which was exactly as many in the press had predicted. Marciano got Joe on the ropes multiple times and threw the right but Joe slid off or countered too quickly. By the 13th, his old legs were gone. He was walking in postholes. This isn't just me saying it. This is how the action was viewed, and even predicted to play out, by contemporaries. Charles went on to be a .500 fighter. He was on the serious downside of his career. And honestly, he doesn't look that hot in either fight. He looks desperate and flailing oftentimes. The fact that Wilder controls the action to his preferred distance does not mean he has no inside game. It means that he makes his opponents fight at the distance which best suits his abilities. It also happens to be a distance at which Marciano would be completely ineffectual. "Even small guys like Szpilka"... You do realize that Szpilka was 6-3 1/2 and 233 for his fight with Wilder, correct? He would be a freakshow GIANT in Marciano's day. And again, anyone brining up amateur results from 15 years ago to make a case for their argument is just showing their cards here. It is a pathetic approach to any honest discussion and fairly renders the rest of their thinking to be dubious at best.
your chin doesn’t change from amateur to pro. Skills yes but not the chin. Wilder also forgot to pick up skills in his amateur days.
Show me one 35 year old who moved as well as Walcott did that night? Heck you be hard pressed to find someone at 34. Marciano caught up to him thanks to his pressure. Charles in the first fight was great. It was a war, watch it. Post Marciano he hit the steep decline, partly to the punishment he took. Are we assuming Rocky PED's himself up? Szpilka was only game and would be out faster than Marciano. Yet a guy like this, was even with Wilder. What does this tell you?! Who has Wilder beaten? An old man like Ortiz, who was probably even older than Walcott, and Ortiz nearly stopped him? Yep, that's Wilder's best win. Force Wilder to move on his 18" legs, and he'll slow down faster than you think. I highly doubt he takes a good body shot. Who has Wilder's chin been tested against? That's right, the guy is a fraud belt milker who just happens to have an all time right hand cherry picking his way around the ring, while not picking one top 5 opponents, or anyone who can punch, that isn't over 37 period. Because Wilder doesn't fight punchers, pulling amateurs results adds context to those he fought. Come on Seamus, you are better that this. The day Wilder beat someone who can box and punch that isn't old he'll get the credit he's lacking. Once he get's clipped, which should be soon, threads like this will be as funny than Joshua vs Lewis. Gotta run.
Your ability to see punches, to avoid or roll with punches changes if you have the talent to progress. Chin is largely a mental thing and skill thing. Those do develop. Larry Holmes had a pretty rock solid chin in the pros and great recuperative powers. He was mentally stronger than he was as an amateur, knew how to stay on script when he was buzzed (and all pros are buzzed multiple times in their careers)... Pretty good for a guy cold-cokked twice by Nicky Wells in the amateurs. You people are grasping.
Comparing Larry Holmes skills to Wilders is grasping. Looks like the same fighter to me on video. Amateur version may be better throws more punches and is faster lol
I am responding to your statement on chins, not skills. Please pay attention. By the way, for all the talk of Wilder being bereft of skill, please read what his sparring partners have to say.
He wasn't moving too well in the final round. He looked exactly like the old fighter with no legs which the writers of the day predicted he would be. It's easier to pressure an older, shot fighter who no longer can go the distance.
You can even see it some of the earlier rounds, when Walcott looks gassed and is obviously trying to conserve his energy for fairly long stretches. The idea that he turned back the clock and looked like some ageless wonder for that fight is belied by the film.
Ranked by whom? He's beat several in Ring's Annual Top Ten, one of them twice... And he's about to take a return against another. But as this is a discussion of head to head and not a discussion of relative to one's own era, that really isn't even very material. The fact remains that the Lastarza's and Layne's of Rocky's era aren't cracking today's top ten.
