Historical Comparison of Joshua rebounding like he did ..

I was just talking to my father about how Ruiz's weight blow up due to fame and money reminded me of Duran in no mas

 

Adapting your physique according to the game plan is neither old or new school to me. It's just professionalism.

 

Joshua’s “improved stamina” was merely the result of him pacing himself better and rarely throwing more than one punch at a time. Nothing to do with “old school training.”

 

Bigger story is that Joshua won this fight by using modern (post-Ali) big man tactics. And so did Wilder against Ortiz.

Taller fighters who use their foot speed and reach advantages to slow the action down and minimize the chance that they get hurt in exchanges or caught with “lucky” punches. Old-school fans hate it because it’s less entertaining, but it’s strategically superior.

 

Unquestionably false. Not only did Joshua move around alot more in this fight, but the compubox stats showed that he threw the most jabs of his career. He was 10lbs lighter and for good reason, by Joshua's own admission he moved away from the weights and focused on boxing training and cardio, what he called "70s style" training. This was Joshua's own admission, combined with compubox stats and working eyeballs. This is the most active Joshua has ever been in a fight, ergo he was fantastically conditioned.

Wilder lost every round against Ortiz, how was that modern tactics? Ortiz thoroughly outboxed him until Wilder landed a one punch knockout, much like a Rocky Marciano fight. Or akin to Jeffries vs Fitzsimmons 2.

Tell this to the likes of Benny Leonard, Willie Pep and Muhammad Ali, all who stayed boxing and used your "strategically superior modern boxing". Slugging and swarming have always held their own in regards to modern style boxing, they have been legitimized throughout history against "modern style" boxing. AJ won this fight because he was able to STAY moving (thanks, old school conditioning and boxing focus!) and Ruiz had gained weight from partying onto his already obese frame, making him slow and inactive. This is why he lost, he couldn't keep up with Joshua. This strategy of controlling pace and jabbing and moving is nothing new.

 

Eh... What this only confirms that it's rather more an individual thing than past vs present. Floyd vs Pac took place 40 years after Manilla after all.

LaMotta was famous for blowing up between fights. Galento was hardly Bernard Hopkins and Baer wasn't very disciplined either. Dempsey threw away some of his best years to do movies. Jack Johnson was hardly the most dedicated either after winning the title. I don't know where you draw the line between this new school and old school, but there are of course plenty of examples for the 60's, 70's and 80's as well.

Conversely you have some very disciplined fighter today as well. Hopkins, Ward, GGG, Canelo, Loma, AJ, Bradley, Floyd - lots of them.

Maybe that was Marciano's way, but it wasn't general method. Sounds a bit unhealthy to me.

Canelo slimmed down for the second GGG fight. Not to make weight, just to carry less muscle because he obviously felt that was oreferrably against the constant work rate of GGG. Against Kova he obviously felt more muscle was needed, because it's a different kind of opponent. Not only in size but also in terms of stamina.

Depends on the opponent as well. Against someone like Miller a bit more mass can be helpful. I don't think he should fight as last night every fight and I don't believe he will. He'll probably be in the 240's for most of his fights, where had been mostly previously. That's my guess anyhow.

Sorry, just got a bit nauseas from your stacking of cliches. I'll be happy not to discuss with you anymore.

 

He definitely did pace himself better. But. He came in lighter, and actually threw more jabs than he has in any fight and kept moving all night.

Another thing that definitely improved his stamina was his mentality, he wasn't nervous in the slightest. He was relaxed, so his muscles weren't tensed, meaning better cardio. Not exactly "old school" training per se, but he definitely switched from a muscle developing, explosive size/strength based training schedule to a more boxing skills and cardio camp.

Wrong.

No, he didn't. He fought tall.

Carnera, Loughran, Pep, Leonard and Tunney are all examples of people who fought tall before Ali.

No. No he didn't.
He fought like a ****ing mong with a KO punch.
He lost every round threw nothing until the 7th against an old man.

Yes. What is your point? Also there's a fair few instances of fighting tall going wrong.

That is a gross generalisation. I'd class myself as an old school boxing fan, despite my age. But I loved AJs performance. It's my favourite from him.

 

It was a smart strategy by Joshua against a much shorter fighter with slow feet. But, it was hardly impressive. Joshua's power shots were few and far between. And, when he threw them, they were wild and off target. I think Joshua looks the most vulnerable he has ever looked. I never thought I would say this, but, I believe even the amateurish Wilder will likely knock him out at this point.

 

LaMotta "blew up" about 10-12 lbs. That's considered blowing up for that era. Spence blows up 40lbs. Wild difference

 

What he's going for is that the old timers was a bit derisive of that kind of tactics when Ali introduced them in the 60's. What Ali did was new school back then. I'm a bit unsure of when old school stopped and new school started.

Ali's introduction of that kind of movement at HW was certainly new, but when I think of new school I primarily think of the training that especially Spinks and Holy pioneered in the mid- late 80's. Mackie Shilton's stuff.

 

Something that needs to be considered w old school fighters compared to modern ones is that they had to make weigh that day, meaning if they kept blowing up they couldn't continue making weight.

Guys like Spence, Crawford and Canelo can all dehydrate to get back down easily.

 

I stand by my original post. Joshua was always a well conditioned athlete. The problem with stiff, tightly-wound guys like him is probably more mental than physical. He's shown in the past that he really gets gassed when he tries to unload on people with hard combinations. Someone like Joshua can bounce around and flick out occasional jabs all night, with or without the extra muscle. The only real question was whether he had the smarts and discipline to pull it off.

And for the record, Joshua looked like he was getting tired at times in this fight too. He just didn't give Ruiz the opportunity to capitalize on it (and Ruiz didn't put help his own cause in that regard either).

I already explained how WIlder used modern big man tactics. If he tries to go toe to toe with Ortiz or stays within range and tries to outslug him, he's probably getting counterpunched to death and knocked out cold. He did what he had to do.

What do guys like Leonard and Pep have to do with anything?? I think it's pretty clear that I was talking about changes in the way big men fight. Not sure how you read that as suggesting that no old-school fighters used jabs and a lot of movement at any weight. Seems strawman-ish tbh.

And, yeah, Ali was the biggest influence to how certain types of tall, athletic big men have fought over the past half century, even if they don't move around quite as much as Ali and lack his physical gifts.

 

Also they had lots more fights. Spence going up to 200 lbs (since he's about 160 in the ring) sounds a lot to me and I'd like to see a credible source before I believe it. But however it may be with that, the fact is that you can't really blow up that much if you fight 10-15 times a year. But you will also have less time to work off what you do put on.

Whatever Spence walks around at that, I have never seen him anything but in great shape in the ring in any case. So he wouldn't be an example I would use of an undisciplined modern fighter,

 

Carbajal-Chiquita II is another example of a fighter suffering a brutal stoppage, and rebounding immediately with a different strategy and less offensive mindset.

 

Give Joshua some credit for adjusting his game plan. This is how he's going to fight vs anyone who can punch. Shame Ruiz for coming in as fat as he did, which took some luster off the win. For the sake of the division, the right man won.