Prime Pac vs Fab four- how many of the four could Pac have beaten?

Who are the 12 people that think that Manny would have beaten ALL of the Fab Four?

Ha!

That's some party they're having.

 

Only Pac has a chance against is Duran. He can also do pretty good against SRL but not win. Hearns knocks him out cold. And Hagler is too big.

 

Pacman was at his best as a Featherweight. He only had 1 fight at lightweight (against David Diaz,) but that could've been arguably his best weight class in his amazing prime.

With that being said, we're discussing how he'd do against arguably the greatest LW in the history of the sport, two top 5 all time welterweights and arguably one of the top 3 or 4 middleweights ever. He'd get knocked out by Leonard, Hearns and Hagler and more than likely Duran would stop him. Roberto was VERY heavy handed and Pacman likes to jump in when he throws his combinations. I could see Duran putting him to sleep or just beating him in a competitive (and probably very exciting) decision.

Some of the mentions that he'd be competitive with what I'm assuming is a prime Leonard is laughable. Ray is 5 "10; he would tower over Pacman and stop him inside 5 or 6 rounds.

 

Clearly a case of styles. SRL would outbox Pac at range because he was just as fast but longer. The way to offset someone boxing you is you damage them, which Pac couldn’t even do because SRL’s chin was iron.

In the case of Hagler, he could be outboxed. A shot SRL did it and a past it Duran took 5 rounds off him. I think Pac would be in and out and run around the ring. Don’t forget that Pac looked his best against guys coming at him, Diaz, Cotto, Hatton, Margo, Oscar, Rios - in fact when Cotto stopped and fought on his back foot instead, he made Pac look bad at times. People forget that Pac feeds off guys coming at him.

Hagler wins if he chooses to box on the outside because of his range and jab. He also wins if he roughhoused Pac, elbows, headlocks, falling over him. But can’t see it, Hagler was a straight up war fighter and I see Pac befuddling him in and out side to side.

Canelo was fkin guys up at JMW too, he had similar power p4p if not more and floyd schooled him all the same. People put too much stock on size. I would bet my house floyd schools him again, at any weight. Make it LHW for all I care.

 

Oscar said his weight was fine. His coaches said his weight was fine. I’ll take their words over peoples guessing.

Oscar washes Forbes (who was decent) 4 months before at 150lbs. He took Floyd to an SD at 154 10 months before. He got destroyed by Pac and everyone said it was a fluke. Once again, it would have been proven a fluke if the naysayers were right, but they were wrong, because Pac dominated for the next 2 years all the same.

Odlh was not prime but he was still good enough to ktfo mayorga, SD floyd and wash forbes 12-0.

 

*cough*

Look, prime Pacquiao is a genius and gifted fighter. It's much more difficult to detect flaws with him. He had a deeper game and a sharper tactical eye. His accuracy, speed and power are unmatched. I mentioned though that the size and weight could be a problem, same as weight and size would be a big problem if the Fab 4 would fight RJJ at middleweight. RJJ was criminal at that weight. If that's what you mean by H2H, then same apply to Pacquiao versus the Fab 4. I remain cautious because of the size and weight.

JMM fought a couple of his lasts fights at welterweight, factually. His biggest win in career in fact.

The welterweight division had the most dense talent in the past 2 decades than at any other moment in history. I can put an extra 5 years of stretch but I think everyone know what I meant.

 

Lol your so bitter

 

Pac against Hagler is just a joke
Hearns would catch him and knock him cold
Leonard is naturally bigger and would outbox him imo
Duran fight would be close and pac stands his best chance in this fight.....would depend what Duran turned up.

If its prime Pac against prime fab 4 then its defo 1 at the very best.....but more than likely a zero

 

Pipe dreams....

Pac never faced a Middle weight but now he would beat the argueable best Middle weight who ever fought in Haggler ? Pure Comedy.

If Pac is such a killer at Middle why does he not step up to fight the over rated GGG who could not beat a blown up Junior Middle.....GGG needs money, is old, is not big, and has not won a meaningful fight in some time, should be easy picking for Pac...make that fight

 

the third fight was after Pacquiao's prime. That Margarito fight took a lot out of him

 

dangerousity,

Yes, a fight against Ray would have been different to one against Marvin. But although Marvin didn't have Ray's speed, he too possessed great boxing skills and an iron chin.

Manny wouldn't have fed off of a prime version of Marvin going at him. This wouldn't have been Marg in there at a C-W, after being knocked out by a faded Shane. This would have been a peak version of Marvin, with a 75" reach, with great skills, great power and an iron chin. None of those guys you have mentioned were anywhere near the threat that Marvin would have posed. Yes, Ray took rounds off of him. And I give Ray huge credit for that. But Ray had a comparable reach and Marvin was also past his best at that point. His heart really wasn't in the game at that stage. He was only fighting once a year and he was coming off of a tough fight against Mugabi. He showed Ray too much respect and threw the first 4 rounds away by not fighting southpaw. But when he switched, he started winning rounds. But Manny didn't have Ray's reach or defence, and it wasn't Marvin from the Minter fight. And those 2 factors are extremely important here.

Yes, Duran also took some rounds off of a peak version of Marvin, by fighting a very impressive, disciplined fight. But is that really grounds to predict a Manny win? I don't think so. Manny was even smaller than Duran. And even though he was obviously much faster then Duran, he didn't possess Duran's boxing skills. Personally, I think there's an argument that Manny could have been at his peak at the lower weights had he have stayed there. I don't think Marvin would have shown him the same amount of respect as what he showed Duran, and I'd have expected him to have fought much more aggressively. I don't see how Manny would have won. If he'd have darted in and out to try to pinch the rounds, Marvin would have turned up the heat and pressed him to try and hurt and stop him. The Duran fight was a boxing match. A game of chess that was close until the last 3rd of the fight. Against Manny, I think Marvin would have employed different tactics. Although Marvin would have respected his speed, he wouldn't have respected his size or his power.

That's your opinion and I respect it. But like I've mentioned, there's a world of difference between fighting guys from LW-WW, to fighting one of the greatest MW's of all time who'd have been at his peak. Remember, this discussion is prime for prime. Marvin would have felt him out at first. He'd have used his huge reach advantage to try and have outboxed him in the early stages. And if like you say Manny had started to have befuddled him with his speed, he'd have changed his tactics and put his foot on the peddle. Look what he did with a master boxer in Hearns. He knew that there was a good chance of the fight being stopped due to the cut he'd received, so he started stalking him. If he'd have started to trying to walk Manny down with aggression, then even though Manny was incredibly fast, he'd have caught up to him at some point, and he'd have hurt him. There's no way Manny could have evaded him for the full fight. And if Marvin had have pressed him, Manny would had to have backed off and fought defensively. Manny might be a warrior, but he wouldn't have gone to war with Marvin. I think you have exaggerated Manny's chances here. Marvin would have been a terrible opponent for him.

Canelo will never be as good as Floyd. But Canelo was young when they fought and he showed him far too much respect. He's now in his prime and is a different fighter both mentally and physically. Floyd would not school him at any weight. He wouldn't even fight him back then without a C-W. So he wouldn't even have entertained a fight with him at MW or above, let alone have schooled him there.

 

We didn't have to guess. We could see it with our own eyes. Yes, of course Oscar said his weight was fine. What else could he say? How many times have we seen fighters say that they had great camps etc, only to find out afterwards that that wasn't the case. It happens frequently.

He looked gaunt at the weigh-in, and he only rehydrated by 2 pounds, whereas he normally rehydrated between 8-12 pounds. And Freddie Roach expected him to rehydrate by even more than that, due the fight being held at WW, which was a weight he'd not fought at for a very long time.

Before the fight, Roach famously said that Oscar couldn't pull the trigger anymore. He was very confident of Manny beating him, because he'd seen Ivan Calderon give him hell in sparring sessions when he'd had him in Oscar's camp for the fight with Floyd, and he'd also seen Steve Forbes hit him clean and often.

Fighters can age very quickly.

The fight with Manny was over 2 years after the Mayorga win, and it was over 18 months after his fight with Floyd. Although he beat Forbes comfortably on the cards, he didn't look good.

Personally, I think Manny would have been too much for him at that stage regardless of the weight. But the weight was the final nail in the coffin.

http://thecomeback.com/queensberryr...hoyas_weight_for_the_manny_pacquiao_bout.html

 

Nobody is doubting that Manny was a genius in the ring. But that doesn't mean he'd have beaten a prime version of Marvin Hagler, who would have held a huge reach advantage, a considerable height advantage, a considerable weight advantage, whilst also possessing great boxing skills, huge power and a granite chin.

Manny wasn't Superman.

It's nothing to do with being nostalgic and showing bias etc.

It's just pure common sense.

I have Ray Leonard ranked higher than Roy Jones. But I don't think he'd have beaten Roy in an actual H2H fight.

The same applies to Manny.

Anybody who wants to rank him higher than Marvin or Tommy won't get an argument from me. But H2H is completely different.

Just analyse Manny's career. Yes, he was incredible. But he was beaten in his prime and he met his match with a guy like JMM.

Anybody who seriously believes that he'd have beaten all of the Fab Four needs their head examined.

It's an absolute fantasy.

It's laughable to think he'd have kept Marvin and Tommy off of him.

If anything, it's the fruits who are picking Manny who are showing bias.

Regarding the WW division, it wasn't that great, because most of the best fighters were faded by the time Manny and Floyd fought them.

Like I said previously, the WW division of the late 90's-early 00's was better.

 

The audacity that Canelo's biggest drug supporter is going hammer and tong to out another fighter
Another fighter that has never actually failed a test...

You are the load your mother should have swallowed kid.

 

You brought up Pacquiaos 'steroid history'. Given that Canelo is a specialist in the field, he is very relevant?