Andy Ruiz v. Rocky Marciano

185 pound fighters knocked him down, had him dazzed and according to him had him been blacked out..........marcianos sig fights are against todays cruiser weights.....he has zero resume against modern full size heavies.

 

Hey No Neck, usually you are a restrained & rational poster.
Why create a thread where those who pick more than 1/2 of the options (a draw also, not even considering no contests), are barred from being selected, then try to force folks to vote in ways that betray their beliefs & explain here?
You will get objections, cynicism, less regard...And less folks joining in.
That is before you start insulting them such as calling them cowards...

Just because you are confident in an outcome does not mean that it is either so...
Or fair & logical to impugn the motivations of all who differ with you.
This kind of hating & believing the worst of another "tribe"-including in politics-is destroying the public trust & social fabric.


Now to make the case for a very possible decision...
I think Ruiz would NOT likely be too big for Rocky. Since the size is mostly fat, not height, muscle or reach.
But if a *prime* Marciano took a long time to get a mere TKO over...Overweight ex MW, & most of his career LHW Don Cockell...
Of course a more skilled, far more accomplished at HW, much larger & more insulated by fat Ruiz-who unlike Cockell never was KOed, & instead of having many losses already, had only one close decision loss: could well last the distance.

Rocky only had one fight left, & after the fight, stated, "He's got a lot of guts. I don't think I ever hit anyone else any more often or harder."

Of course the much bigger & better Ruiz could well go 12 rounds.

 

I process it, but the bottom line is that he still lost.

 

You are welcome. But you well know that what I wrote was overwhelmingly a valid critique.
You have no arguments against you devolving from a generally decent & mature poster into one who got mean & childish.

Nor even addressed my case that Ruiz-as so many agree just from reviewing the many "likes" of comments such as by Janitor about a decision-very well may last the distance. Which I just edited with additional rationales of why Rocky may never be able to stop Ruiz.
Your knowledge & defense of Ruiz-& the comical discrepancy between how often Cockell went down or was stopped at lower weights & Ruiz, who only barely lost a close decision with an unfavorable training camp against a good SHW...

Means you must know Ruiz might never even go down.

Regardless, what is important is you help preserve the civility here, + your own credibility, by refraining from juvenile attacks upon the manhood of any & all who disagree politely with you.

 

My money's on Nemo.

He's a brave and tough little survivor who faces adversity and ultimately wins (like Rocky) unlike the big fat bully Jaws who picked on undersized humans under conditions that suited him only to end up as fish fingers when someone fought back.

 

Agreed. But Ruiz's story is far from complete.... or far from when it should be completed.

 

I will take it that everything you ignored you could not remotely contest. So the points on ethics are effectively conceded, though likely Ego prevents you from being large enough to state that directly.

As for your sole point, I know he was that size. As a relatively fat HW.
But especially considering he was overweight, this is much smaller than Ruiz. Who is at least a little taller with a greater reach. As for pure volume, it is nowhere close. But in lean body mass he is somewhat larger too.
Even discounting all of the Ruiz blubber...
If he was 205 lbs. he would be relatively lean-I would say under 15% body fat, probably 13-14% max., agreed?

I know you believe that Ruiz is a better HW than Cokell-even relative to their eras.
In absolute terms, it is not close at all.
And Ruiz has a much better chin too, then if a prime or peak Rocky threw the kitchen sink at Don & took 9 rounds to get a TKO...

Even if Ruiz was not being evasive or defensive, why would there not be a VERY good shot that he could at least last the distance?

 

There's nothing to hate about him.He always gave 100% in the ring and was a great fighter ,and a fine ,modest man.

 

Marciano never beat a guy over 200lbs who was class/prime.
HumphreyJackson 254lbs of lard 4-2-0 ko%28.57% retired afterwards.

Bill Hardeman 206.5lbs 1-4-0 won 1 fight had 1 more was ko'd and retired.
ko%0%
James Connolly 213lbs this fight was called a disgrace12-9-0Connolly was ko'd 7 times ko% 33%
Eldridge Eatman 206.75lbs 22-20-5 lost his previous 3 retired afterwards ko%22%
Artie Donato 201.75lbs7-10-0, ko'd 7 times ko % 10%.
Johnny Schkor 220lbs ko'd in1 rd in his previous fight. Gave Marciano a decent fight and a cut eye that would open in subsequent fights .
Had one more bout and retired ko% 42%
Keene Simmons Just scrapes in at 200,5lbs 8-8-1,a career sparring partner cut Rocky badly enough to give the referee thoughts of stopping the fight.
ko%12.5%
Joe Louis 213.75lbs 37 years old ,fighting because he was in debt,and now relying on his left jab to get by. Did okay in the early rounds , then the steady bombardment began to take its toll and his legs went, leaving him a stationary target.
Don Cokkell 205lbs had been ko'd by a middleweight when he fought at his natural weight of 175lbs,didnt deserve a title shot really,but hung around for 9 rounds despite being hit low, whilst on the floor ,after the bell, and butted.

That's Rocky's resume against men over 200lbs

 

You failed to mention what happened to everyone of those men. They went night night. Regardless of the competition. Ruiz has only had three good opponents going for a grand total of 1-2. Louis despite people’s constant attempts to put down was obviously fighting well (despite being a shell of himself) and had a good showing of himself. the Better men we’re the small guys at the time.

 

Would you not expect a top fighter to dispose of those guys?
All had been stopped previously and usually a lot quicker.
I'm not saying Ruiz wins ,I'm merely pointing out that Rocky's credentials against class men over 200lbs are non- existent neither did he face many big punchers, the only two of any note he met both floored him.

 

Lol love the pot shot there. Marciano put his opponents to sleep much quicker then 99 pct of the best boxers to ever live. Maybe foreman and Liston and Tyson were faster by a round. He also was floored in his last fight. His last fight. How did most greats do in their last fights?

 

How many greats are 32 and still champ in their last fight?