How is Usyk better than Canelo P4P?

this isnt about canelo.

 

how is it vague? how could i have possibly been more specific? 130, 135, 140, 147, 160, 168, 175 are deeper, and 154 would be around equal.

 

Of course it’s vague, just saying A is better than B as you did without an explanation is just that....vague.

Okay why is 130 deeper than cruiserweight? Or 168 for that matter.

 

130
berchelt, farmer, herring, santa cruz, valdez, frampton, diaz, alvarado. and tank says he can still fight there, as well as loma.
just a higher skill level gauntlet.

168
alvarez, plant, benavidez, saunders, jacobs, chudinov, dirrel, lemiuex.
same as above.

 

Sound and what does that prove?

Save Alvarez, your description of “higher skill level” is subjective at best.

You have much of a similar mix of fighters that you do at the higher weight albeit not with a depth of said division.

168 is a crap division bar Canelo, Jacobs and Saunders filled with B level fighters.

Again it’s subjective but I don’t agree.

Cruiserweight is a stacked division, it’s just getting the raw end as the heavyweights got when Wlad was ruling due to lack of “notable US/western names”.

 

plenty of non western stars in boxing, thats not why cws dont draw. they just aint all that good. its a bunch of B level fighters fighting each other, and looking B level. if one at least passed the eye test as a great fighter, never mind achievements, i would be more sympathetic. but i dont see the skill level. which fighter at cw do you consider to be A level and why?

 

Ive already told you, why do you think Chudinov or Dirrell are any better than the list I wrote.

You gave me a smaller, lesser list, no explanation but I have to explain for me to convince you, see where I’m going with this.

Dorticos, Briedis and Gassiev are proven A level fighters all have a great mix of speed, power and skills. Now I don’t see how I can convince you as you have evidently made up your mind and they don’t pass your eye test, yet Chudinov, Dirrell, Plant do (as an example).

Why don’t you take time out and go watch them, the fact that Briedis holds a KO over a reigning heavyweight champion, Hunter is 6-0-1 since moving up and Usyk is the heir apparent and both Hunter and Usyk are ranked top 10 heavyweight s in a division you claim is better speaks volumes.

 

youre right, we each have to rely on our own ability to see what is actually happening in the ring. i trust my judgement, its rarely wrong, thats easy to verify, and i see cw as very mediocre. you obviously see the opposite, so how well they do at hw should tell us a lot. one of em should be able to sniff a title with all the incomplete heavies wearing em today.

 

Much better than you pal

 

That’s a fair post but I will say that people have to take into account the massive weight jump/difference that their inevitably will be.

That’s not an excuse but there is a massive difference for let’s say Crawford moving through 3 divisions at a change of 12lbs and a leap of 20/30/40lbs with that of cruiser to heavyweight.

It’s like LH to cruiserweight, a massive jump and I’d put my money that non of the top LH’s today and you can throw in Ward and a prime Kovalev beat Briedis, Dorticos, Usyk or Gassiev at cruiser if they where to move up.

 

Tbh I think it's an easy question, now. Not when it was posed.

Canelo is P4P #1 and I don't think it's arguable otherwise. Usyk, was P4P #1, then took a year off. Right now Canelo definitely has the better résumé but it's close, as Usyk definitely has the #2 in the game right now.

Usyk - Gassiev, Glowacki, Briedis, Hunter, Bellew and Huck.
Canelo - Kovalev, GGG, Lara, Trout, Cotto and Jacobs.

The only issue here is that Canelo's résumé is very thin if you #1 read into the fights that have an astrix and #2 use your own scorecards. However, none of that is official so going off actual results, Canelo is a 3 weight world champion, has beaten 2 collosal punchers, moved up a total of 21lbs and has beaten 3 locks for the hall of fame. Whilst Usyk hasn't. Yet.


Now, based on ability. It's all Usyk and it isn't close. Better footwork, offence, defence, structure, selection, versatility, speed, power (at CW), stamina and co-ordination. He also doesn't use PEDs.

 

"How is usyk better than canelo P4P"

 

Usyk is not roided to the gills, doesn't need gift decisions to win, he doesn't go after opponents once they are past prime, neither does he drain them or give them short preparation time. So yes, Usyk is 100% better than Clenelo, as a boxer and as a human being as well.

 

this is what you quoted and replied to, you werent replying to the op. you got in the middle of a discussion between 2 posters about the depth of talent at cw, which is cool, but if youre gonna quote me, debate on what the post was about.

nowhere did you address anything i was asking about and you quoted, thats why i said it wasnt about canelo. if you just wanted to give your opinion on the opening post, you didnt need to quote me for that.

 

It's almost impossible to rate a division in isolation. It's only when its proven fighters step up to a higher weight that we can start to get a more well-rounded picture of the division's strength relative to the sport as a whole.

The success of a fighter like Hunter (who was never a particularly big CW or accomplished one) is quite instructive. Now maybe Hunter is just one of those guys who thrives against bigger, slower fighters, or maybe he was actually a damned good CW to begin with who simply didn't spend enough time at the weight to make his mark. Or maybe the one-sided beating he took against Usyk lit a fire under his arse and made him a better fighter. Lots of permutations to consider. But one thing it shows is that a fighter doesn't necessarily have to be a proven phenom at the weight in order to compete successfully at HW.